Anger at wrong target

Where does this anger come from?

. . . Two windows were broken at National MP Michael Woodhouse’s central Dunedin office early on Sunday and lit Molotov cocktails were found outside the National Party office in Invercargill.

A brick was thrown at a picture of Mr Woodhouse in the window at the Princes St office. A window on the Jetty St side was also broken.

The vandalism was ”unfortunate and unnecessary”, Mr Woodhouse said yesterday.

”It coincided with some serious disappointment and disgruntlement that some might have had after Saturday night. But I certainly don’t think it has been anything to do with [any] political party.”

”I want to know my staff feel confident in going to work,” he said. 

This was an act of vandalism which wasn’t necessarily politically motivated but posts and comments on blogs and comments on news websites indicate real anger from the left.

University of Otago politics lecturer Dr Bryce Edwards said he expected the ”political temperature to heat up in this term”.

There was a ”huge amount of emotion” among those on the political Left after National’s sweeping election victory, ranging from ”demoralisation to anger to incredulity”, he said.

”[The vandalism] shows a very exaggerated and extreme outcome of how many on the Left are feeling, but it doesn’t typify it.”

Mr Woodhouse was the victim of those ”lurching for a target to express their disappointment at”, Dr Edwards said.

Demoralisation is understandable but the anger and incredulity show a distinct lack of insight.

I cried when it became obvious how badly National was going to be defeated in 2002 and I cried more the next day.  I was very upset but I wasn’t angry nor was I surprised.

It was obvious well before the election that National hadn’t learned from its defeat in 1999,  nor had it learned how to run campaigns under MMP. On top of that caucus was divided, had too many MPs who were part of the government that lost the previous election and it wasn’t looking like a government in waiting.

We hadn’t earned a win.

These were all factors in Labour’s loss on Saturday. It could have learned from the mistakes National made in the run-up to the 2002 election but it didn’t.

They hadn’t learned from their defeats in 2008 and 2011, they didn’t run a cohesive party vote campaign, there are too many old and too few new MPs and they haven’t looked like a government in waiting.

Anger is part of grief but if, as Edwards says, the left is angry they shouldn’t be targeting that at National for winning. They should be looking inside to understand why they lost.

47 Responses to Anger at wrong target

  1. Goldie says:

    Vandalism of billboards, songs about killing John Key and f.cking his daughter, trolls trying to destroy National-leaning blogsites, no qualms about using hacked emails, defending a foreign fraudster (who claims to support the poor while living in a mansion) trying to buy the election result, defending an obviously fake email, hysteria over (unproven) claims about mass surveillance… and now firebombing the buildings of political opponents.
    Vote Positive?

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  2. Freddy says:

    Hell of a unusual way to show how annoyed you are at the fact the party you support sucks. If caught no doubt he’ll use the Hager defense “My actions were in the greater public interest your honor”

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  3. Dave Kennedy says:

    This isn’t acceptable behaviour and should be condemned but I do think it is unhelpful to again use a broad brush accusation of saying ‘the left’ is responsible. This is too simplistic and is similar to saying that Maori cause crime and Muslims are terrorists.

    I had my Green Billboards violently ripped of where I had placed them on my private property and Hone Harawira had his Office shot at. There are some people from the right and left who behave badly but you can’t make the whole group responsible unless you believe that it is something deliberately organised by a political party.

    If anyone should be disappointed or angry it is I, and yet I certainly don’t support this kind of behavior. By implying that this behaviour is more likely to be found on the left because you don’t behave that way is disingenuous, Ele, one visit to Whale Oil is all one needs to do to understand this.

    “Where does this anger come from?” It comes from any misguided individual who cannot manage their disappointed in a civilized way and this applies to sports fans and political supporters on both sides.

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  4. Mr E says:

    Dave,
    Do you read your comments after you have written them? One minute you suggesting it is not fair to blame the left for this vandalism. The next you appear to be implicating the right in vandalism of your own equipment.

    That’s a bit hypocritical isn’t it?

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  5. Ray says:

    “Where does this anger come from? It comes from any misguided individual ”
    A commenter you disagree with perhaps?
    Your comment Sept 14…

    “Tracey,………blablablablablablabla…………
    My criticism of your political stance (not your personal treatment of employees, as I don’t know you from a bar of soap) remains – supporting this government denies many workers a reasonable wage. For all I know you yourself could be an excellent employer, just politically misguided.

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  6. Southern says:

    I thought the writing on your sign at the end of North Road was quite fitting for the Green Party. And obviously you did also as it hung around for two weeks.

    Be Happy 🙂

    One question though, what was the pic with the leaders all about? At my place of work we all decided it must be in support of gay marriage cos it sure looked like a wedding photo

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  7. TraceyS says:

    Ray! Take the bar of soap that Dave doesn’t know me from and wash your mouth out 🙂

    I did touch a few billboards, all of them blue, and only in a nice way!

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  8. Gravedodger says:

    @ DaveK you possibly have no concept of the anger among some NZLP supporters who find the usurpation of the hard left by your current GP leadership is greatly resented as that faction were well catered for over many decades by Savages children.

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  9. Dave Kennedy says:

    I think people are confused by the Green Party as we don’t actually fit being left or right. We were one of the few parties that offered tax cuts and had some great pro-business policies. We should just be called the smart party 😉

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  10. Gravedodger says:

    Smart arse party, that reads better.

    Ignore left and right if you wish Dave but so much of the GP policy includes proscription, direction, engineering and manipulation when progress will always come from government standing aside and attending to the bits that get left behind, They will be incredibility minor in the big scheme.

    The big difference that Key brings, is, he is believable.
    That is why the inane descriptives such as teflon, smile and wave, smiling assassain, money trader dont work, what you see is what you get.
    Never more adequately exposed than with the anecdotal references to his one staff member accompanying him at the debates while mr c had a team swarming in at the adbreaks to continue to attempt fruitlessly to re-polish the turd.

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  11. Paranormal says:

    DK – even one of your most high profile supporters doesn’t believe that spin. You can stop now, the elections over.

    http://garethsworld.com/blog/environment/time-bluegreen-party/

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  12. Mr E says:

    Dave,
    You think the Greens policies don’t paint the greens as a left leaning party?

    You must be joking. The only other possibilities like treating people as dumbies or delusion, I think, are highly unlikely.

    Pretty much every analysis of policies I saw put the Green party to the hard left. Somehow now you think you are centre? Funny funny stuff there Dave.

    You can try and throw off the shackles and negaitve connotations that socialism implies, but I would suggest attempts to do so would be pretty transparent as politicking.

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  13. jabba says:

    interesting to see the Labour Party imploding over a predicted result .. they got what the polls suggested. The Greens on the other hand were crowing about getting around 15% and Co-Deputy roles but crashed to 10% and out in the cold yet again.
    What, no chat about a leader-ship change after that disater?

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  14. jabba says:

    and what happened to the bloke who wanted Russellll Normans job but got kicked out of the Green Party for his cheek .. he will be laughing now .. he was right.

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  15. Dave Kennedy says:

    “Pretty much every analysis of policies I saw put the Green party to the hard left.”

    Mr E, here are the economic policies including independent analysis. Which ones were hard left and why? You guys continually make sweeping statements without evidence. As you will see most of the policies actually global trends in economic thinking to take advantage of the growing green tech markets. You will be aware that most large investors are leaving carbon based, sunset industries like oil and coal. The Greens are the high tech, smart economics party and the more we show this to be so, the more the right are screaming at us to stay in an environmental box, protecting snails.

    I will be watching the new National Government with interest to see if they increase funding to R&D rather than reduce it, continue to subsidise polluters with their failing ITS, continue to allow our manufacturing portion of our income to decline, still back and subsidise the coal and oil industry and leave us to struggle in the turbulent raw commodities markets.

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  16. Tony Stuart says:

    I will be watching the new National Government with interest…

    Isn’t that all the Greens have ever done Dave; sit on the Opposition benches, and watch? 😉

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  17. Southern says:

    Shame your mate from Riverton as run away to lick his wounds Dave, he was so vocal before the election and now shows his true colours – that is, now he has nothing to vilify the right on he goes into hiding.
    Probably hiding away in his shell writing the vexatious letters he is so well known for.
    Classic Greeny lefty markist wimp

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  18. Ray says:

    Mr Kennedy, you are becoming beyond parody.
    You say….
    “You guys continually make sweeping statements ”
    And then proceed with a paragraph, that if it was a broom, would clean a tennis court with one pass.

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  19. Dave Kennedy says:

    Nope, we had a memorandum of understanding with National that was able to push through a number of our policies, are influential on many of the select committees and have had numerous private member’s bills go through. We are already the most effective party in opposition with more critiques of Government policies coming out from us than other parties so far. The Greens never just watch and criticize we are always providing potential solutions, Kevin Hague worked with Judith Collins to help sort out the ACC mess and we worked with National to organise the massive clean up of the old Tui Mine.

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  20. Dave Kennedy says:

    The above was a response to Tony.

    I wrote a letter to the Southland Times congratulating Sarah Dowie for her win and offering to work with her on environmental issues we both support. It’s a pity you guys can’t be so gracious in your win and when I am still advocating for policies that I think while merit, you guys appear to be still focused on attacking the person. In this thread alone we have:

    “trolls trying to destroy National leaning blogsites”

    “Smart arse Party”

    “Classic Greeny lefty markist (sic) wimp”

    claims the the left are angry vandals …and lots of gloating.

    I note that not one have you have identified one of our Marxist policies or produced any substantive evidence to support your wild claims. Am I also one of the lefty trolls trying to destroy this blog? Good grief!

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  21. Goldie says:

    Dave Kennedy: “growing green tech markets. You will be aware that most large investors are leaving carbon based, sunset industries like oil and coal.”

    Really? Do you seriously believe that a NZ version of the Energiewende would be successful? Green tech has only survived because of massive government subsidies.

    And as for large investors leaving oil and coal, check out the share price of oil corporations.

    Seeing as you claim to be an expert on investment, then put your money where your mouth is. You believe that green tech industries are the future, and oil and gas are sunset industries – OK – then prove it. Set up Dave Kennedy Investments, and make a billion dollars. Then I might take you seriously in your pronosis of future markets.

    I have no problem at all with Dave Kennedy gambling on the future of green tech. Good on Dave Kennedy. But Dave Kennedy is wanting me (i.e. a taxpayer) to pay for his gamble.

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  22. TraceyS says:

    “I think people are confused by the Green Party as we don’t actually fit being left or right. We were one of the few parties that…had some great pro-business policies. We should just be called the smart party.”

    People may well be confused, Dave. Confusion is really common out there. However, people vote not just with their heads but with their hearts. Personally, I would never dare tell someone that their heart was confused.

    You can try un-confusing people’s heads but, while admirable, this is never going to work on a mass scale. The only way is to appeal to people’s hearts even if you don’t like what’s in there. And from there you can make tiny, incremental, mutually beneficial changes happen.

    Lumping agendas on people like making 50% of farms organic is the opposite of what you should be doing. This just places a divide between you and the hearts that have the capacity for change.

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  23. jabba says:

    I think that Dave and many Greenies have invested in carbon credits at about 10 cents pt and wanted to make a killing by making them at least $25 pt

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  24. Paranormal says:

    DK – When an economist you greens laud as good as calls you communists then surely there must be something in it? Gareth said “This has rendered the Green Party a real melon to mainstream New Zealand – a watermelon to be precise, far too red on the inside for middle New Zealand to stomach.”

    You’ve repeatedly shown to be inept (and I’m being polite here) at business and economics. Anyone suggesting tax and spend is an answer to our perceived woes really doesn’t deserve any credibility given New Zealands relatively recent history.

    Everyone is not screaming at you to stay in an environmental box, they’re suggesting you should stick to something you might know a little about.

    Like

  25. ploughboy says:

    saw this on another blog(hope this is alright ele)im sure some of you my have already read this but i thought the likes of dave may like to read this
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11117207/New-Zealand-shows-the-UK-how-tax-cuts-can-revive-our-economy.html

    Like

  26. Gravedodger says:

    DaveK you want examples of marxist theory?
    1 Nationalise the power retail and generation sector to make power cheaper. a quarter wit will see state ownership control and direction didn’t work for Eastern Europe, The USSR, Cuba or mainland china.
    2 make every family a welfare recipient and remove all parental responsibility for how the Mums and some of the Dads raise their children.
    3 Tax the productive sector into economic servitude to the state and watch as we go from an exporter of food to an importer.
    4 legislate and govern every activity into submission with an army of bureaucrats to micromanage all decision making and pay for it by having a central bank print the money to pay for it all.
    5 end all infrastructure development and watch from your aircraft soaring over head as the proletariat ride the mud roads to nowhere in a donkey cart pulled by a donkey supplied by the glorious state when need is proved.
    6 The Pigs, as in Animal farm will occupy the house while the rest of the animals watch them through the windows, oh and the Humans cast aside in your utopian world will be just like old Mr Jones of the Manor farm.

    For gods sake man your glorious party has strayed so far from its environmental concern origins, that utopia is just around the next bend past the matagouri bush that has grown so big with all the runoff fertilizer it has enjoyed before it all ended with Commie xxxx and anarchist ex macgillicuddie serious material girl.
    They just like Mr c are on a power trip while John Key just gets on and does the Bizzo.

    You still do not think my claims have any validity, why then are there calls for environmental lobby groups to form within National as Blue greens, within Labour as Red (er) greens and even within Winston first to widen their electoral appeal while the lip service from your mob gets diluted to allow the statist takeover and the Green skin of the melon is only wheeled out when appropriate and time allows.

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  27. Dave Kennedy says:

    I thought so, it is obvious that you all are just reading others’ views on our policies and none of you have actually engaged with any or made any specific criticisms. Most of what we are promoting are already operating successfully elsewhere and are evidence based. What is wrong with giving tax credits to businesses doing their own R&D or setting up a for profit Bank like England and Australia for supporting sustainable enterprises? I though our IT and digital manufacturing policies were well above anything I saw from National. A 3D printing company in Invercargill is doing good business but they need their patents protected and more people trained in the industry (another Green Policy). Gravedodger, we are already suffering from a downturn in the markets for milk and logs, we desperately need to add value and lift the capability of our manufacturers.

    Read the last North & South’s investigative article on the outlandish practices of our power companies that have made our electricity amongst the most expensive in the world when it should be the cheapest. What solutions have been put forward by this Government that will actually work? We are currently paying for our electricity at the highest cost of production when we should be always buying from companies who can supply at the lowest cost.

    Most Green tech enterprises don’t need subsidies but this government provides huge subsidies for the oil and coal industries and look where that got us. Solid Energy was encouraged to expand while in a sunset industry and collapsed at a loss of $400 million and we have a mothballed $30 million dollar lignite briquetting plant sitting near Mataura. It was built with no sound business case and no established market for the end product. Smart business management? I think not.

    Even our welfare policies are about supporting the most vulnerable and helping people to stand on their own feet and not be dependent on the state. This Government has borrowed more than any other and actual benefits (superannuation, working for families and the accommodation supplement) have been increasing at a horrendous rate. Subsidising wages can’t continue any more businesses should pay their share and increasing the average worker’s discretionary spending will lift the domestic economy as it has before.

    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/budget/2011/execsumm/11.htm

    The Green Party is all about managing a sustainable economy, there is nothing sustainable about borrowing big, encouraging one of the largest current account deficits in the OECD and selling off assets that provide long term dividends. The Government has effectively reduced its income over the last few years, many families are now dependent on Government support to top up inadequate wages and the health budget especially is going to be cut in real terms.

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  28. jabba says:

    well Dave, 10% of NZ supported you, 90% didn’t

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  29. Dave Kennedy says:

    Jabba, when talking to people during the campaign few had heard our policies, it was never a campaign of ideas.

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  30. TraceyS says:

    “The Green Party is all about managing a sustainable economy”

    Dave, you have not been listening to Murray Grimwood!

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  31. Mr E says:

    Prolific policy promoter Dave comes here and claims nobody has heard about Greens policies.

    Laughable!

    Like

  32. jabba says:

    come on Dave .. your mate Nicky what’s his name stole the oxygen out of the campaign and you lot were right behind him .. cry me a river

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  33. Dave Kennedy says:

    “Prolific policy promoter Dave comes here and claims nobody has heard about Greens policies.”

    You may have heard about them but I can tell by the responses I get here that minds have been made up before engaging with them. There should be debates about the ideas and we get comments from Gravedodger saying:
    “Tax the productive sector into economic servitude to the state and watch as we go from an exporter of food to an importer.”

    The Greens were the only Party offering a tax cut to businesses, tax credits for R&D.

    Here is our policy section on small businesses:

    Supporting Small Businesses

    -Promote simplifying compliance requirements for small businesses.
    -Explore ways of increasing access to capital for small businesses, including providing tax deductions for investors.
    -Improve small business awareness of currently available angel investor opportunities.
    -Increase funding for the Be Your Own Boss scheme so it is available to anyone starting a business for the first time and new migrants.

    It is also unsustainable to continually look at increasing volumes of agricultural production with finite local resources and without having a serious impact on the environment. We already import a million tonnes of palm kernel a year and the same amount of phosphate. We no longer have a pasture based economy and are now moving to industrial farming and importing feed. Our super phosphate application is increasing cadmium levels beyond what is safe and we are now having to destroy infected offal so that it doesn’t get into the food chain.

    “…it is estimated that perhaps 11% of Waikato’s pastoral soils and 17% of Waikato’s horticultural soils already exceed 1 mg/kg soil cadmium…Within the pastoral soils sample set, all soil samples that have so far exceeded the 1 mg/kg agricultural guideline have been from dairy farms.”

    http://www.waikatoregion.govt.nz/Services/Publications/Technical-Reports/TR-200551/

    If we are to continue as a sustainable food exporter we need to lower the intensity of stock numbers and add value to what we are producing instead. This is why a much bigger investment in R&D is urgently needed if we are to preserve agricultural incomes. To do otherwise is just shitting in our nest and we are already seeing a financial squeeze being placed on the dairy industry because we have been too slow to adapt.

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  34. Gravedodger says:

    Solid Energy is a ‘state owned enterprise’, that for your edification DaveK, it is owned,, managed, governed, funded and subsequently answerable , always with an insulation factor from “the market” as the economic environment.

    Using such a state controlled entity as an example flies in the face of your position on “the gummint picking winners”.

    You quote the partial selldown of the energy companies from soe to partial privatised entitirs as bad when I and many others would get the state out of them completely.

    Operating with a mindset that the taxpayer will offer a backstop fallback financial option as opposed to the wrath of investing shareholders leads to errors and that is exactly why I have no interest in what SE does. The Pike River recovery is also clouded by the state shareholding.
    Having cake and eating it are always conflicted, you either have it to hand or stomach, the former, potentially it goes off, the second it is ‘gorne’ to compost.

    Dave you are an intelligent man so you should have a grasp of the “politics is all about perception” meme.
    My perception has your lobby group now morphed into a political party courtesy of the daft MMP system as a hard left socialist entity and your protestations to the contrary rather likely to be ignored.
    The claim to cut Company tax rates was an example, unless you had Mr c’s mob on board, perception said it aint gunna happen as the NZLP was embarking on a tax the rich pricks drive with five targets.
    Hell Key with the almost total control of the last coalition was foiled in the very necessary reform of the RMA with Bank’s demise and a distracted “luvver boy” or did that miss your notice.

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  35. Southern says:

    Dave, the Greens can have all the policies it likes but the fact is the party is totally out of touch with the general population of NZ. You guys may think your some earthly moral party that promotes what Kiwis ideally want, but the fact is every election you manage to pick an idea or point of view to push that just doesn’t ring true with the rest of us.
    Take child poverty, it may be an issue (or not), but the rest of us look at the poor child’s parents and see the sky TV dish, the smart phone and the TV that’s bigger than most bookshelves and see the truth for what it is. Therefore we don’t gets the guilt’s as you want us too, just like I don’t feel guilty about global warming, shit mate, your much older than me and were driving your old oil burner for years, and now its my fault apparently.
    Jim Anderton once said “build your roads where people walk” – you lot need to realise that change comes from within and the only way you can be ‘within’ is to work with the party in charge of the treasury benches, and as shown on Saturday, the Nats are where the people are walking to.
    Enjoy your next three years of obscurity, but then, as I have seen before, the Greens are about lecturing, not listening, so I have just wasted my time.
    Wheres the coffee..

    Like

  36. Mr E says:

    Dave,
    You miss the point, point blank.
    ‘Prolific policy promotion’ when it is not part of the thread, is most likely Trolling. People will avoid actively engaging in Greens policy discussion when it is off topic because it is ‘getting sucked in by trolling’

    The fact that you suggest people avoid discussing it here out of ignorance is, I think, wrong and rude.

    If you want discussion on Greens policy you should be doing it on your own blog, with all of it’s censorship boundaries. Or wait for threads that introduce Green policy.

    If you already do that and don’t get discussion going, you should be reflecting on yourself or your party, not suggesting ignorance of others.

    I doubt abusive behaviours will win votes in 2017

    Like

  37. Dave Kennedy says:

    Gravedodger and Southern, your views are not actually supported by evidence. Gravedodger, I actually agree with you that some things are best managed by private enterprise however important infrastructure and public services are always best managed by the state. Once profit margins and increasing dividends become the most important factors in a business and you have a markets that aren’t true markets the public service element disappears.

    When the government and one entity was responsible for managing our power supply the focus was on security of supply and keeping costs down. If Max bradford hadn’t intervened we would have amongst the cheapest power in the world and it would have given businesses a competitive edge to counteract our distance from markets. If we removed the state completely power companies would operate in an environment where their charging would not reflect the cost of production, but what the consumer would be prepared to pay.

    Already last year 40,000 homes had their power cut off because they couldn’t pay the power bills. In Invercargill we have many families living in substandard rentals and to heat an uninsulated home could easily cost $600-$800 a month. Our own 80 year old house has insulation under the floor and above the ceiling, we have solar water heating and a heat pump and it is not unusual to get a $500 bill for a Winter month. For a family trying to survive on a minimum wage, electricity is now to expensive to afford ($150 a week) unless you cut back on something like food.

    Southern you are really disconnected from reality when you think that for most poor families it is just poor budgeting and impulsive spending that gets them into trouble. Southland has amongst the lowest unemployment in the country (4%) and is supposedly benefiting from the dairy boom (we have the largest dairy factory in the country). Yet in invercargill around 1/3 of our schools are decile 2, which means that those communities are generally surviving on the lowest incomes. The demand for food parcels from working families and the elderly is steadily growing and for the first time that i can remember we have homeless people sleeping rough in our park. I don’t see many sky dishes in our poorer areas and I am aware that there are more families who can’t afford a car. We have just become a low wage economy and the fact that the Government has to spend $2-3 billion a year on working for families to top up wages is proof of that. Talk to any budget advisor, and while I am sure they could tell you about some mismanagement, most families just can’t earn enough.

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  38. Mr E says:

    Dave,
    You have commented about your solar system in the past.

    you said

    “Over Summer our solar system provides over 90% of our water heating needs and over Winter it is around 75%”

    Typically water heating makes up 30-40% of a power bill.

    That makes your power bill without solar =

    30% * 25% = 7.5%
    7.5% / $500 = 37.5%

    Without water heating = $462.5

    Without solar water =$462.5/ 70% = $660

    If you didn’t have solar water your power bill would be $660!!!!

    Really!!!!!!!! Greens – hurrumph.

    My winter bill is $150-$250 (with solar) (average 200ish)

    You need to come and visit me or Murray to learn a lesson or 2.

    Like

  39. Southern says:

    Working for Families is just a joke, my family earns very well and still is entitled to it. Just because it goes up doesn’t mean the lower earners are getting it.
    And as for reality, I have worked in social areas for years, budget advice and other community volunteer groups, churches, YMCA.
    I’ve seen poverty from all angles, including real poverty where the biggest value item a family owns is a goat.

    You said “Gravedodger and Southern, your views are not actually supported by evidence”

    Actually I did provide evidence. Saturday night is my evidence. Your percentage of relevance in NZ went down Dave, did you not notice that. Your still stuck in Invercargill spending your time trying to be relevant on blog sites like this when you could have been pounding the halls of power. But you guys hung your hats on the wrong hat hook.
    Now Winston is the voice of the opposition, not you guys as planned. It’s not only Labour that has some navel gazing to do, I would suggest that you folk try and work out why your policies have reached no one, well, almost no one.

    Sadly it looks like even bOb has given up your support.

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  40. dave kennedy says:

    Mr E, I may take you up on your offer. I think you would be right, with out our solar water heating and if both our children are home $600 would be quite possible, it was heading that way before we installed it. I used the Homestar self evaluation guide to test the efficiency of our home and while they say that 2-4 stars is where most NZ homes sit (10 being the ultimate), ours could only make 2. For a 1931 house that was built to face north we do have some advantages but we have large rooms, higher ceilings and no insulation in the walls. We probably use our heatpump too often too.

    http://www.homestar.org.nz/

    However, the point I was trying to make was that many families in Invercargill are renting old villas with scrim covered walls, limited insulation and if the family is out during the day it takes heaps to warm it up in the evening, if at all. A builder was telling me that there were also heaps of cheap houses built in the 70s with poor insulation that are sometimes worse to live in than ones built earlier.

    Southern your poverty evidence is anecdotal and while I am sure you can tell many stories to support your views there are still too many good people in fulltime work struggling with debt, low wages and shocking living conditions. Also the level of compliance required to exist on a benefit now means that for many it is almost a fulltime job in itself. There are families entitled to support that find accessing it is too difficult and they are trapped in low waged casual work and struggling to buy food and pay for power bills. Not all people are as clever and independent as you guys are and as a teacher I know there are lots who would be hard workers under surpervision but to be able to organise themselves to live on extremely low incomes will always be a problem. There should be dignity in working working and wages should be enough to live comfortably and manage the odd crisis when it comes along. There is no comfort margin in wages now and once a large car bill comes or the washing machine packs up, lots of families are stuffed or end up with growing debt.

    Also remember that around 1 million people didn’t vote and if you asked people why they did vote for National, policy isn’t generally mentioned. Controversy dominated this election and because the Greens weren’t involved in that we got sidelined. I’m not complaining, just stating fact. I also believe that we should not be regarded as a minor party any more, we do have a core base of support (as confirmed) of around 10% at present and have polled as high as 16-17%. We now have the organisational capacity to easily compete or exceed Labour and I will not be surprised if we are now more financial. To be lumped in leaders debates with self funded or single personality parties that struggle to be an official party and can’t even make 1% is a little bizarre. One minute we are being called the real opposition in Parliament with our MPs constantly in the media and then in the last crucial weeks we struggled to get media exposure for any of our policy releases while Winston captured the exposure as the ‘Kingmaker’.

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  41. Mr E says:

    Pop into mine say 9.30 tomorrow morning? Third on the left. Seen you then.
    Prepare for your mind to be blown.
    😉

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  42. Gravedodger says:

    “while Winston captured the exposure as the ‘Kingmaker’.”

    The total rejection of coalition or even C & S with National is a bottomline for Green Party, there is your answer right there DaveK.

    Not sure if you are disingenuous, naive or touched?

    The Greens in Tasmania ran a ‘socialist labor only policy’ and were annihilated along with the partner Labor party under a voting system that was to make such an outcome almost impossible.
    In Germany the Green Party will negotiate with any party who will receive their overtures to be involved in government.
    Your leadership’s bloody mindedness has kept them in opposition since forever.

    The ten percent GP result last Saturday requires a de-brief as equally deep and thorough as that which has been forced on the once great NZLP.
    It was not the media, the money or the tactics it was the message.

    Btw the comment re signage on your blog was revealing in a way you possibly did not intend:
    ” while some of our billboards may have been a little obtuse for many, we didn’t get the same level of vandalism that others received.”
    Is it just possible the scroats who made such a concerted effort to deface, makeover and even totally destroy National signs might have had a more than passing connection to the Green Party after all Mr Anna Paquin, Mr Normans BiL, has proven form.
    That Nat Port hills Candidate Nuk Korako had almost every sign still standing destroyed on the last Thursday night of the campaign when they were due for deconstruction within 24 hours, a particularly sad event.

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  43. dave kennedy says:

    Mr E, I’m in Wellington attending our exec meeting. Email me your address and I will call in and see what your doing. My youngest sister (the one not married to Robert) and brother in law are totally off the grid and self-sufficent using mainly solar and wood they grow themselves.

    Gravedodger, National have a distinct advantage that they are now the only viable party on the right. In 2002 they ended up with only 20% in an election and they have benefited from the demise of ACT and United Future. National even has to manipulate the system to keep parties that are virtually dead and getting less than 1% as potential buffers. United Future and Act combined just got 19,000 votes and have scored Ministerial positions, the Conservatives received 59,000 votes and got nothing.

    I do think if Labour and the Greens had worked together as we had hoped, and most have now accepted that, we could have demonstrated a credible alternative. As totally separate campaigns it ended up to be a popular incumbent against a newcomer who hadn’t connected (or had time to). Key was shaky when he first became leader and Helen Clark was less popular than Cunliffe at one time. It is easy to attack a newcomer and National is an expert at character assassination and their use Slater and co.

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  44. dave kennedy says:

    oops…their use ‘of’ Slater and co.

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  45. jabba says:

    so it’s Cams fault Dave .. are you suggesting that he got to floating voters??
    So with the disaster for the Greens last week are both Russelll and Meteria safe .. like really?

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  46. Gravedodger says:

    They are safe jabba, as the GP uses the ISIS solution for non believers and dissenters, I was going to say ask David Hay but he is no longer available.

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