What did Hunua & Tauranga learn that Northland should know?

Winston Peters won the seat of Hunua in 1978 but lost it again in 1981.

He won Tauranga in 1984 and lost it again in 2008.

What did the people of Hunua and Tauranga learn that voters in Northland should know?
"Send him a message."

60 Responses to What did Hunua & Tauranga learn that Northland should know?

  1. Budgieboy says:

    Beautifully put!

  2. RBG says:

    The voters of Northland should know why they have to have a by election only 6 months after the general election. The voters of Northland should know if anyone involved in the National party Northland electorate selection process knew about Mike Sabin’s ‘issues’ before he was selected as the 2014 candidate. The entire country should know whether John Key knew anything about Mike Sabin’s ‘issues’ before he appointed him as chair of the Law and Order select committee.

  3. homepaddock says:

    RBG – no party wants a by-election in a seat they hold. It’s a waste of both public and party resources. If anyone had known anything about any candidate that might have led to a by-election before the election, it would have been acted on.

    If the PM had known about the issues the appointment wouldn’t have been made. You might not want to believe that he would do the right thing for the right reasons, but even those who don’t like him must understand he wouldn’t make an appointment which would reflect badly on him or the government.

  4. robertguyton says:

    The voters of Northland should know that Winston can and has won an electorate seat and is on track to win another.
    They should know that their vote for Winston will help him take the Northland seat and that he’d be ever so grateful 🙂

  5. Gravedodger says:

    Why dont you share what you know RBG or is the innuendo it?

  6. Andrei says:

    It never ceases to amaze me how tawdry politics and politicians are.

    This discussion is on the same level of who the new X-Factor judges are.

    And yes RGB we all have a fair idea what the departed MP is facing charges for – it is irrelevant to the matter of moving forward from here.

  7. Dave Kennedy says:

    “…we all have a fair idea what the departed MP is facing charges for – it is irrelevant to the matter of moving forward from here.”

    Only it isn’t irrelevant if the charges are serious enough to put doubt on Sabin’s suitability to be an MP. If serious charges were known to members of the party (as they were) then the ethical thing to do would be to withdraw him from the list. This is about ethics, good process and how well the National Party manages difficult situations. There is a long record of ignorance from the PM regarding the transgressions of government MPs and his Ministers and not dealing with issues unless there is public knowledge. We should expect better.

  8. Willdwan says:

    I must be the only person in the country who doesn’t know what he did. Any hints?

  9. Andrei says:

    RGB New Zealand is blessed with having relatively good governance, it is far from perfect and our MPs are a woeful bunch.

    Indeed it often seems the system is designed to stack our halls of power with mediocrity.

    But we muddle through

  10. Gravedodger. says:

    Nah willdwan there are many of us as the matter is very heavily suppressed but that does not stop the ferals from slurping the coolaid and pointing bones at John Key.
    Badly handled possibly but that is for the future but when anyone allows due process and fairness to guide a response it is almost certain to happen that way as a perception.

    If it is as some wish then there could be issues around who knew what and when but the Guy has resigned and going on revelations following the DCM’s so far dished out By Key in the 7 years of his ministry it seems he is rather harsher than his predecessor who corpse cuddled Field until he crossed the Rubicon and hinted at another political allegiance, ignored Peters, yep the same dodgy bugger that is suddenly the Northland voters new besty, over his clear lies and obfuscations around donations because she needed his votes, legislated the Darnton threat away using her coalition of the rabble, Dyson, Dalziel, Samuels and used the Greens in a way that would have had most people blushing with embarrassment.

    Has anyone seen Richard Worth, Aaron Gilmore, or even Kate Wilkinson around parliament lately

  11. Andrei says:

    I actually meant to address my last comment to Dave Kennedy but an addition observation

    The New Zealand landscape is littered with disgraced MPs who have left under a cloud.

    I doubt that there has been a single Parliament in recent history where one or more MPs have resigned in disgrace

    Mike Sabin is the most recent addition to the hall of shame and he wont be the last.

  12. Gravedodger. says:

    I feel some sympathy for Sabin just as I do for that poor bastard they found hanging from a tree in good ole Mississippi why bother with the facts when a lynching will do jus fine. He wuz black ya kno so guilty of something anyway.

  13. robertguyton says:

    They are National people, in the main.
    Some from Labour.
    A proportionally high number from ACT.
    None from The Green Party.
    None.
    None at all.

  14. robertguyton says:

    Sabin’s black, Gravedodger?
    Something about him seems to be. Certainly the details of the police investigation into his behaviour have been blacked-out.

  15. RBG says:

    Homepaddock, if all that you have said is 100% correct thats great. The trouble is that the public don’t get clearly and unambiguously told these things by the people involved . Can you direct me to a statement (or individual statements) by the Northland electorate National party selection committee where they all state that no one knew of any reason why Mike Sabin should not be selected in 2014. I understand that this is not usual practice, but when a candidate has resigned because they are under police investigation (and that is all I know) it would be appropriate for those involved in his selection to confirm that they did not know. Also would you please show me where John Key has confirmed that he did not know about Mike Sabin’s issues before he appointed him to head the Law and Order select committee. Thank you.

  16. Dave Kennedy says:

    Robert, I would say that so far we haven’t had an MP having to leave Parliament because of a serious transgression but we have shifted out a number who haven’t lived up to our values or ethical expectations as candidates. Gravedodger talks about Kate Wilkinson as if she was a problem when in actual fact she resigned for something that many MPs following have refused to do. I hold her, Simon Power and Katherine Rich in reasonable regard because they did have ethical standards and were either forced out or resigned because of that.

  17. Name Withheld says:

    Homepaddock,
    Can you direct me to a statement (or individual statements) by the Northland electorate National party selection committee where they all state that no one knew of any reason why Mike Sabin should not be selected in 2014.
    And…
    Also would you please show me where John Key has confirmed that he did not know about Mike Sabin’s issues before he appointed him to head the Law and Order select committee. Thank you.
    Phew……..
    There’s your Saturday organised for you Ele.
    Chop chop now. I think I detected a little stamp of the foot in those comments.

  18. homepaddock says:

    RBG: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/65697944/mike-sabin-could-have-been-a-minister–john-key

    “Key maintains he only became aware that Sabin was facing personal problems in “very, very early December”.

    It was “well and truly after” he appointed him chairman of Parliament’s law and order select committee, he said.

    He was informed by chief of staff Wayne Eagleson, and says no-one in the National party knew prior to that. Key hasn’t spoken to Sabin about the scandal – or since he resigned.

    “We didn’t know before the election…didn’t have any inkling prior to that. . . ”

    Sitting MPs who are the only nominee don’t go before a selection committee. But all candidates are asked in their application if there is anything in their past the party needs to know about and sign a statutory declaration that everything is true and correct.

    I’ve heard and read that people outside the party knew things before the election, I have no knowledge of anyone in the party knowing anything untoward.

  19. robertguyton says:

    “He said…”
    “Key said…”

    Pound of salt. Barrel of salt. Shipping container of salt.

  20. JC says:

    The Herald report agrees with Key.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11399804

    As far as whether regional members knew.. if they approached Sabin all he needed to do is point to his statutory declaration and suggest it was a part of the left’s dirty tricks campaign to shut it down.
    Members would then either have to accept that, produce concrete evidence of wrongdoing or face legal action for any action that damaged Sabin’s reputation and career.

    Its also worth recording that when the story broke the media approached a family member and got smartly brushed off.

    JC

  21. Dave Kennedy says:

    “I’ve heard and read that people outside the party knew things before the election, I have no knowledge of anyone in the party knowing anything untoward.”

    Ele, it appears a number of MPs (ie. Mark Mitchell) knew about Sabin’s situation well before Key claimed he did and Cameron Slater (hardly strong on ethics) has been very critical about how it was handled.

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2015/01/good-riddance-bad-rubbish-sabin-resigns/

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2015/02/earth-going-john-keys-mind/#more-175423

    There is a no surprises expectation that covers all MPs and state services, including the police, and it defies belief that the police didn’t pass on that they were investigating Sabin at the time. Mitchell and Ministers who knew should have informed the PM or encouraged Sabin to do so.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11399194

    All this has put the Police Commissioner and Ministers in a difficult position, because to fit into the PM’s claim of knowing nothing then they cannot confirm when they passed on information and when they knew. So many ‘no comments’ looks bad when they could easily solve all the doubts and questions by saying the date they knew and passed information on. Transparency is only an issue when one has something to hide.

    Remember that Key also refused to read the police report on John Banks and would only accept Banks’ own word that he had behaved legally. The bottom lines for National always seems to be that things must be vaguely legal, not necessarily ethical, and to plead ignorance as long as possible.

    We deserve better.

  22. JC says:

    “Remember that Key also refused to read the police report on John Banks and would only accept Banks’ own word that he had behaved legally.”

    And as it turns out Key was in the right and right now the prosecutors are in trouble for withholding even more evidence of Bank’s innocence.

    JC

  23. robertguyton says:

    “The Herald report agrees with Key.”

    Ha ha ha ha ha!

    ‘Course they do! They’re in his pocket, JC.

    Sheeeesh!

  24. robertguyton says:

    Dave’s right – we deserve better. We’re being deceived and some, like JC, are lapping it up.

  25. Dave Kennedy says:

    JC, fine legal technicalities may provide escape clauses but surely we should expect high ethical standards from those who we elect to public roles? Key and Banks have stretched credibility about what they knew to unbelievable extremes that actually suggest a high level of incompetency if they genuinely didn’t know what they claimed.

    If Cameron Slater complains of poor process and he was aware of Mike Sabin’s issues well before the PM, then serious questions should result. It’s appalling!

  26. RBG says:

    Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions Homepaddock. It will be interesting to see the outcome of the by election next week. The people of Tauranga did vote Winston in for 24 years, they may have felt that if they hadn’t got what they wanted from Winston in that time, then they weren’t ever going to. The people of Northland might feel the same about National after more than 60 years. That is why I thought Bill English’s comment about people wanting change should vote National was funny. Still I expect he is a bit distracted right now, the poor guy is probably not happy that his carefully balanced books are being threatened by his colleagues promises to spend up in Northland.

  27. jabba says:

    DK and bOb “seem” to know what the Sabin issue is. Can either of you two please share with us what you know about what he is accused of?
    If not, STF up and let the process take its course.

  28. RBG says:

    I can not forgive Slater for his ‘did the world a favour’ comment after the death of a young man in a car crash. Slater’s opinion on Sabin is worth nothing, he should be ignored by everyone. I actually agree with jabba that due process should be followed. Having just found myself agreeing with jabba, I think I need a drink (or 2). But thats better than using Slater to defend an argument.

  29. Name Withheld says:

    So, RBG, your acceptance that “due process should be followed” is such a rare event in your life that it calls for a celebratory drink?
    Or are you just following the greens usual hypocrisy of shooting the messenger?

  30. RBG says:

    No name withheld, I’m a fan of due process. It’s finding myself agreeing with some of what jabba has said that is hard to deal with.

  31. jabba says:

    well RGB lets just say that I have had a couple after a hard day so cheers. Glad to hear that you are a fan of the rule of law.

  32. JC says:

    “JC, fine legal technicalities may provide escape clauses but surely we should expect high ethical standards from those who we elect to public roles?”

    Right now is not a good time for a Green Party wannabe politician to claim some sort of ethical superiority.

    JC

  33. Dave Kennedy says:

    Jabba & RBG, what i am talking about is nothing to do with Sabin’s supposed offending or even whether he is guilty or not. If an MP (or any public official) is involved in a criminal investigation it would be expected that until it is resolved that they should step down from public office.

    I actually don’t know anything about what Sabin is accused of doing, but I have heard it is not minor. To stand as a Green candidate we have to declare if there is anything in our past that may compromise our ability to to the job or reflect badly on the party and I am sure it is the same for National.

    Many male teachers have accusations of sexual misconduct and even if they are innocent most step aside from their job until it is resolved. No parent would want to have a child being taught by a teacher being investigated and it defies reason to have someone being investigated for a criminal act chairing the Law and Order Select Committee. There is probably nothing illegal about it but it wouldn’t be ethical.

  34. Andrei says:

    If an MP (or any public official) is involved in a criminal investigation it would be expected that until it is resolved that they should step down from public office.

    I’m confused Dave Kennedy, my understanding is that he has stepped down from office and that is why we are having a by election

    Have I missed something?

  35. Mr E says:

    Green Party members support Whaleoil. Again. My my.

  36. Dave Kennedy says:

    What we are also talking about is the timing of the investigation and the PMs knowledge of it. The alleged offense and the investigation occurred well before the election, Key’s ignorance of Sabin’s situation is not believable given all of those who apparently knew.

    I obviously do not regard Cameron Slater that highly but what he claims hasn’t been questioned so the whole story reeks of manipulation and coverups. It seems that Sabin’s resignation was delayed as long as possible and even the announcement (straight after Russel Norman’s resignation) seems deliberately timed. Sabin was able to gain financial advantage by delaying the announcement as long as he did.

    Andrea Vance says: “…awkward questions linger for Key and National about why action was not taken against Sabin immediately, why the party was slow to sense danger from the rumour mill, and how much due diligence it did on Sabin before his selection.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/65749569/sabin-a-fishy-smell-but-nothing-hookable

    For a Party to know so much about what is happening in the lives of opposition MPs it does seem very unusual that they knew so little about one of their own.

  37. Dave Kennedy says:

    Mr E, disingenuous distraction. I do not support Slater but I do find it intriguing that a National supporting blogger is so keen to expose shocking process within National’s camp. What is motivating him I wonder, frustration that National have managed this so badly or sour grapes? What has caused Stater to bag the Party he has supported for so long?

  38. Gravedodger. says:

    If you read Slater’s number one NZ blog DaveK, with even a weekly visit you could not have missed the significant changes in content and attitudes exhibited there.
    The host freely admits his battles with depression and long term readers are aware how that has translated in his blog over the years.
    That said he still says it how he sees it and many of his readers appreciate his version of very honest and uncompromising product.
    Methinks many who have strong negative opinions about the man himself are dwelling in the fantasy world of Nikki Hagar supported nauseatingly by many in the socialist camp, promoted by Fairfax and the Herald plus many on the wireless and TV who are genuinely threatened by his modus operandi.
    With the tainted circulation figures of deadtree press from giveaways and single interest takers of their trash wrapper papers, Slater’s readership figures are impressive by any measure and to rate that effort against the mob rule attitudes of his many detractors is at best naïve.

    Slater was very hurt by the treatment he received from the MSM and incidentally by the privacy breach by the PM in the scurrilous overegged efforts of Hagar suggesting he was something of an ogre while totally ignoring the equally if somewhat retarded efforts of Martin Martyn Bradbury at his pathetic and failing blog and the ferals at The Standard.

    I wonder Dave K, if someone stole and released the intimate and personal email traffic of the Green party leadership along with Frazer House and the total cockup that was the Mana/Internet party, out of context and slanted to make a case that they were the only ones indulging in “dirty politics” as many as claimed to be outraged would come from your sheltered little pool.
    The messaging that accompanied the fevered and successful manipulation of the list to elevate the chosen one XXXX over Mike Ward and others would have been a surprise to many of the Mellon followers in its duplicity and overt actions.

    Just watching Corrin Dann, Katie Bradford, Felix Marwick, John Campbell, Barry Soper etal dishing their news creations against what Slater publishes on matters political is sad in its apparent bias.
    I have been following TVOne infotainment hour for ten days or so due to SWMBO’s desire to watch it in very large part, and the way they took until last night to even acknowledge Willow Jean Prime who ran a significant second to Sabin last year speaks volumes as to how the political staff in that training school for NZLP wannabees operates.
    Just view the Montage at the opening of the segment on the by-election night after night that has the dwarf top dead centre with Mark Osborne lower left behind the two talking heads. Very subtle and I would suggest completely unnoticed by many.
    As a sometime student of body language and subliminal advertising some 25 years ago when exposed to some very knowledgeable marketing gurus in a Real estate career It is dogs testicles in its blatant manipulation.

  39. Dave Kennedy says:

    Gravedodger, I’m pleased you got that off your chest, but you still haven’t said if Slater is on the mark with his criticisms of Key. All the evidence (including Slater) points to National knowing well in advance the issues being faced by Sabin.

  40. homepaddock says:

    Dave – I accept that you won’t accept the PM and National could do the right thing for the right reason but surely you understand no party would do anything that would result in a by-election in a safe seat.

  41. JC says:

    DK,

    I’ve just checked *all* of Whaleoils posts on Sabin.. the earliest mention of Sabin’s predicament was Dec 22nd last year. Whilst he may have had earlier knowledge of what was going on before that date he didn’t pass it on.

    And if he had you and Hager and the rest would have been up in arms if he had talked to the PM about it. Your lot have been trying to suppress the free flow of information to and from the PM for the last six months or so.

    JC

  42. Gravedodger. says:

    Surely you jest, ” all the evidence”, my posterior, you mean “all the rumour and speculation”.
    We do not need another “tarnished coin” here.

    Dave, Cameron Slater has Opinions, Dave Kennedy Has opinions and I have opinions, what Mr Key knew and when is very problematical as you should know because as with many of the contretemps around serious malfeasance among teachers, all too common alas, rumour, speculation and innuendo are totally subservient to due process.

    Just because you and others recognise that while John Key remains PM the prospect of any sort of win for the coalition from hell is a very remote hope, Sabin is entitled to whatever he and his legal team can use to defend themselves.

    My very sketchy information on the matter leads me to suggest your continued desire to litigate it outside the courts is another form of the dirty politics you preach as being the entire preserve of your political foes.

    Why don’t you make a full and frank disclosure of what you suspect , and from your activity here, hope and indeed opine, at your blog and see what happens.
    I have a wee wager you wont because it just might cause a serious and potentially significant reduction in your net wealth.

    The Northland by-election is about whether Mark Osborne, Willow Jean Prime( if she survives being pushed under a black and blue bus by her leader) or a Carpet bagger with absolutely zero concern for Northland, its people and the wider population of this country, will control the balance of power in the current parliament that in a fairer democratic system would be a very different entity making this thread completely redundant.

    If you truly believe your crusade will build a better Northland you are totally deluded.

    Btw while you are showing a serious interest in rumours and speculation, have you written a letter of support and empathy to Mr Cunliffe and his wife Karen as it is “rumoured” they could be yet another sad matrimonial casualty of the brutal and totally removed from reality goldfish bowl life, that is politics.

    Not sure why it is that we have to get inside the lives of such people when the manager of say Air New Zealand is somehow exempt.
    The simple fact is their private lives should be separated from their public apart that is, unless they might use a totally false public presentation to preserve an image, then such manipulation rightly becomes a vital indicator of their trustworthiness.
    Could it be that the distance between David and Karen in the fluffy bit filmed in their backyard in the run up to the last General election was nothing more than a reflection of a reality that was total political manipulation that had many who knew different, colluding to preserve a happy domestic scene as fact. Now who knew what and when or should I revert to who cares as such things rarely surprise any more.
    If those rumours are indeed true then why could the big part players presenting a total theatrical act to an unquestioning public using a compliant and complicit media, not extend the performance to protect the very vulnerable and innocent children. Parents should be able to do that as a minimum and endure some loss of their personal aims and ambitions while the children enjoy the period of their lives already under serious attack from the modern malaise of relationship breakdown.
    If it can be done for the media why not for their children.

  43. Dave Kennedy says:

    Ele, the history of National not acting in a timely fashion to information that they would (or should have had) is substantial. It has become apparent that action generally occurs only when it is in the public domain and then we hear denials and ignorance from those in leadership roles. MPs and Ministers do seem hang on to their positions now until it is totally untenable for them to continue. The bottom line is always around legalities not morality. This culture is even seen with incoming MPs and I watched Todd Barclay embarrassingly shout down someone in a rural audience during the election campaign when he was asked about the morality of working for a tobacco company.

    JC and Gravedodger, you continue to misrepresent my argument. The suggestion that the opposition tried to block information getting to the PM regarding one of National’s own MPs is clearly silly.

    I have no interest in interfering in the justice system, Sabin could very well be innocent of any criminal charges (what ever the investigation was about) but anyone holding a public office should respect the role by withdrawing until it is resolved. Carmel Sepuloni even stepped aside when it was her mother involved in criminal charges as any hint of a conflict of interest or connection to criminal activity should be removed.

    The Police Commissioner refuses to confirm that information about Sabin was passed on while also saying that the no surprises policy was complied with and Ministers have refused to say what they knew when. This sort of information is in the public interest, we don’t need to know details about Sabin’s situation (that is an invasion of privacy) but we should be reassured about the communication lines and process.

    The PM should know when any of his MPs are involved in criminal investigations (whether innocent or guilty) and if he was considering Sabin for a ministerial role, especially so.

    In actual fact Sabin himself will suffer because of the course of action that has occurred, the thirst for information created by the Government’s mishandling will only draw more attention to him.

  44. Andrei says:

    Dave Kennedy reveals why the Greens are languishing in the political wilderness.

    They get hung up on trivia

    My friend Mike Sabin has turned out to be a dud MP who after due process may be revealed to have committed a crime that generally earns the culprit widespread public opprobrium.

    But John Key is not responsible for Mike Sabin’s purported misdeeds anymore than our blog host is, or myself or yourself are.

    You can go round and round in circles trying to get some mud to stick to the National Party and/or John Key but the only people you will convince are those firmly in the anti National camp to start with.

    And you may turn some people off your cause in the process because this sort of muck flinging is not inspiring. it is not

  45. Dave Kennedy says:

    Andrei, again you misunderstand my argument, I am not concerned about what Sabin has done, but about process. When all those who should have known about Sabin’s situation (and probably did from all accounts before the election) are refusing to comment it looks very much that they are doing so to protect the PM and his version of events.

    As you will be aware I am not known for muck raking or character assassination (you will struggle to find any examples in past comments where that is so), but I do support transparency when it is in the public’s interest and I deplore dishonesty.

    I have been criticised for continually linking to my sources because I don’t like innuendo and unsupported attacks. I have linked to some of our more respected journalists and National insiders to highlight the inadequacy of the National Government to manage a situation of an ethical nature. This is just one example of many that bring attention to a worrying culture within our Government. This isn’t ‘trivia’, this about the ethical underpinnings of our nation’s leadership.

    The fact that many here are defending poor process and attacking the messenger not the message just reconfirms to me that I am right. None of the questions I have posed have been answered but just lots of bizarre misinterpretations of my arguments and motivation.

  46. Andrei says:

    Dave I don’t misunderstand your argument its the old political scandal chestnut – “what did he know and when did he know it”

    And it is tiresome.

    I’ll say it again Mike Sabin is accountable for the sins of Mike Sabin, nobody else.

    For National his implosion is a pain in the proverbial, if they had foreseen its possibility prior to the election they would have headed the problem off at the pass – that is common sense talking.

    Perhaps the powers that be could have spotted it in time , who knows?

    Who cares?

  47. TraceyS says:

    “As you will be aware I am not known for muck raking or character assassination (you will struggle to find any examples in past comments where that is so)…”

    Struggle? Why not at all, Dave! Calling me a “support[er] of worker exploitation” because you didn’t like how I cast my vote in September 2014. Despicable, disgusting, muck-raking! Even worse that, given ample opportunity to apologise or retract, you chose to stand by your entirely untrue accusation.

    “I do support transparency when it is in the public’s interest and I deplore dishonesty.”

    So do I, Dave, so do I.

    If you’re not dishonest then you are a fool.

  48. jabba says:

    Dave K .. should Len Brown have stood down after his issues were exposed?
    The opposition have gone after John Key from the moment it was known he was interested in joining the National Party as a MP. Still happening to this day .. attack politics and DK is guilty of playing the game.
    ps .. I will repeat that Nicky Hager is my hero. God bless the prat

  49. RBG says:

    TraceyS, this thread has stayed pretty much on topic discussing the by election and the events that led up to it. With the banning of Robert Guyton we haven’t got screeds of comments about anonymity to wade through, but now you pop up to re hash the ‘Dave Kennedy defamed me’ rant. He didn’t. He (and I) believe legislative changes made (and proposed) by National lead to the exploitation of workers, the logical endpoint of that being, people who vote National facilitate the exploitation of workers. The Greens get called ‘taliban’, ‘ecoterrorists’, ‘traitors’ and more. It’s not sensible to take such labels personally and pointless to demand retractions and apologies. So to keep on topic, I’ll repeat Winston’s advice ‘build a bridge and get over it’.

  50. Dave Kennedy says:

    Andrei, it is more like what systems are in place to ensure the PM has important information that is crucial to sound and ethical Governance. For a long time now it seems that Key is distancing himself from much that he should know and there is obviously a strategy to make sure he doesn’t know stuff so that he can plead ignorance when the shit hits the fan.

    Andrea Vance questioned due diligence in selecting candidates through to the National Party’s communication systems and the PM’s management. These are systemic issues that go wider than this one little incident (and expensive one of mismanagement led to the cost of a bye-election).

    There is also an old boy’s network culture apparent, where looking after the boys comes before sound governance.I can list lots of other examples where those ‘in the club’ (to coin a phrase of Key’s) are looked after even if they stuff up. I wonder what happened to Don Elder after he lost the country 100s of millions and all the others who had to step down after being caught out when doing the Government’s bidding ended up in disaster.

    Sabin was able to continue to be paid beyond the election and will even receive back pay after the MPs pay rise. I also noted in the past that his travel and accommodation claims were also much higher than most MPs despite his few responsibilities (even given his Northland electorate is some distance from Wellington).

    Links supporting rampant old boy back scratching:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/8398173/Former-Solid-Energy-boss-still-on-1-3m

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7327570/Money-for-mates-claims-to-be-probed-says-PM

    Also under National men have dominated decision making to the extent that we have dropped from 4th in the world for women in management roles to being in the bottom 12. We dropped 13 places in the last year alone.

    http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.co.nz/2015/03/its-mans-world-mind-gaps.html

  51. Dave Kennedy says:

    Jabba, I think Len probably should have resigned given the revelations seriously effected his ability to do the job and brought the position into disrepute. Interestingly the dirty tricks campaign to expose him was almost more sordid.

    I did think it was grubby politics for Labour to look for dirt on Key during 2008 but you only have to listen to Key during Question time to see who revels in innuendo and hitting the messenger rather than the message. The Speaker tells Key off more than any other for bring disorder to the house with his unnecessary comments.

  52. Dave Kennedy says:

    Oops, ‘bringing’ in second last line above.

    Tracey, I am beginning to have concerns for your mental health.You have twisted my words to fabricate a sense of injustice that really appears to eat you away. Go back and read my original challenge and do some serious self-reflection, it is actually quite sad that you have become so bitter about something that wasn’t at all how you read it.

  53. RBG says:

    TraceyS, this thread has stayed pretty much on topic discussing the by election and the events that led up to it. With the banning of Robert Guyton we haven’t got lots of comments about anonymity to wade through, but now you pop up to re hash the ‘Dave Kennedy defamed me’ rant. He didn’t. He (and I) believe legislative changes made (and proposed) by National lead to the exploitation of workers, the logical endpoint of that being, people who vote National facilitate the exploitation of workers. The Greens get called ‘taliban’, ‘ecoterrorists’, ‘traitors’ and more. It’s not sensible to take such labels personally and pointless to demand retractions and apologies. So to keep on topic, I’ll repeat Winston’s advice ‘build a bridge and get over it’.

  54. Andrei says:

    Phrase of the day: flogging a dead horse

  55. jabba says:

    “the old boys club” .. do they wear special ties or do they use that special handshake Dave?

  56. TraceyS says:

    Dave, I suggest that you re-read your original comments. You were adamant that the label fits. I assure you that is does not and that your, and now RGB’s, continued application of it are potentially detrimental to me.

    And no need to worry about me. It is you that is of concern as you gear yourself up for the career equivalent of a woman’s weekly gossip columnist having failed miserably in politics.

  57. TraceyS says:

    “Phrase of the day: flogging a dead horse”

    Disagree with that, Andrei, as he still appears capable of tapping away at long, whining, unsubstantiated, boring, trivial, comments here.

    How hard is to apologise? People of good character do not hesitate to in my experience…

  58. Dave Kennedy says:

    “do they wear special ties or do they use that special handshake Dave?”

    I just think that they are guys who are known to each other and do deals for their mutual advantage. How many examples would you like?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8588475/Key-met-spy-candidate-for-breakfast

    http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/govt-lends-mediaworks-43m-against-advice-4108249

    http://www.oag.govt.nz/2013/skycity

  59. Dave Kennedy says:

    Tracey…Good grief!

  60. Paranormal says:

    RPG said: “I’ll repeat Winston’s advice ‘build a bridge and get over it’.”

    The left seem to laud Winston. And yet it was Winston that promised to bring more Bridges to Tauranga – and they got Simon.

    Perhaps Winston can do as sterling a job in Northland….

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