Saturday soapbox

Saturday’s soapbox is yours to use as you will – within the bounds of decency and absence of defamation. You’re welcome to look back or forward, discuss issues of the moment, to pontificate, ponder or point us to something of interest, to educate, elucidate or entertain, amuse, bemuse or simply muse, but not abuse.
The Nutters Club NZ's photo.

It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men. – Frederick Douglass

11 Responses to Saturday soapbox

  1. Andrei says:

    What people tend to forget, or perhaps never grasp in the first place that people in far off places are human beings, with lives, hopes and aspirations of their own and when we allow our politicians to impose their will upon them tragedy follows – inevitably

  2. RBG says:

    How are people to organise themselves Andrei? What mechanisms and structures could we put in place to help run our societies that wouldn’t involve selecting some people to act as representatives of larger groups of people? Currently we have systems where societies have some people representing large groups of people and we call the representatives ‘politicians’. There are many different types of people who are politicians, with many different goals. I think it is wrong to lump ‘politicians’ into a group and pour scorn onto them (as you often do). While some are deserving of your contempt at times, as I see it ‘politicians’ are the means by which we as a society make decisions. I disagree with some of those decisions, I think the current systems allow too much influence from weapons manufacturers, oil companies, media tycoons and global corporates. I do support you in your concern for people worldwide who have, and will, suffer from decisions made by ‘politicians’. How do we fix that? Its a massive problem, but I don’t think we start by condemning all politicians. I think we need to tell our representatives what we DO want them to do and if they don’t listen, then we vote them out. And if the systems are flawed, then we vote in people who will change them. Very hard to do when some groups have a lot of money to influence voters and candidates. But what are the alternatives?

  3. pdm says:

    `Very hard to do when some groups have a lot of money to influence voters and candidates.

    RBG – do you mean Kim.Com and the Unions?.

    The 2014 elections proved that in democracies like New Zealand no amount of money will buy an election.

  4. Andrei says:

    I guess the concept I was trying to impart was too subtle for you RGB.

    Hey ho.
    hey ho
    its off to war we go

    When the rich man goes to war it is the poor who bleed

  5. Andrei says:

    Oh oh
    Opposition politician Boris Nemtsov killed in the center of Moscow

    Nemtsov’s assassination comes just one day ahead of the Vesna (“Spring”) opposition rally slated for March 1 in Moscow.

    Something very similar happened in Argentina recently and the fingers of the Western media pointed firmly at Cristina Kirchner who of course had nothing to do with it.

    Standard color revolution technique for creating civil disturbances in other peoples countries

    Which if successfully implemented end up looking like Somalia

  6. RBG says:

    Pdm, the unions don’t have a lot of money, big business has much more and has more influence. You are correct about KDC in that money alone won’t buy influence, he stuffed up about having something on Key (when he didn’t). Andrei, perhaps you might elaborate, I understand you blame politicians for war. I ask, how else do we structure things, other than involving representatives of the people (that we call politicians)? War is good for business, why don’t you blame business instead?

  7. Andrei says:

    I ask, how else do we structure things, other than involving representatives of the people (that we call politicians)?

    You establish a constitutional order, which we have done and we work within it to achieve our aims and goals.

    And because human beings are imperfect our constitutional order will also be imperfect so we adapt and modify it as we go through civil discourse, to eliminate flaws we have identified and inevitably introducing new ones that we failed to foresee

    War is good for business, why don’t you blame business instead?

    The two are inextricably entwined – the politicians are beholden to the powerful which in a capitalist system are those with lots of money

    There will always be wars RGB – it is part of the human condition, we are ruled by violence

    But you and I don’t have to play and we can, for now anyway, speak our minds when we are being led down the garden path by people who want to use violence against others to advance their own agendas.

    I am fairly certain we are already on the roller coaster ride to the next major war – its been seventy years since the last one and we have forgotten the grim realities of that and only have the Hollywood version starring Brad Pitt single handedly making the world “safe for democracy” in his Sherman Tank.

    Actually most New Zealanders are at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to understanding what war is because this country has been untouched by war within its borders, sure people have uncles who died in North Africa and Italy during the last round but that is abstract and remote compared to war in your own backyard

    Here is a movie clip from a movie made by people who had actually lived through it as children and there was no part suitable for Brad Pitt in this movie

  8. Ray says:

    Pdm, the unions don’t have a lot of money
    In spite of the plundering of nearly $200,000 from the IRD
    by one union alone?

  9. Willdwan says:

    So it’s business and politicians causing trouble. Not those people in far off places whose hopes and aspirations include killing anyone who does not share their dogma. I’m glad that’s cleared up.

  10. Gravedodger says:

    The most benefit most governments could deliver would come from ceasing the inate belief “that they know best” when the truth is they have no freakin idea.
    Hence we have social philosophy guided and promoted by people who after a course of study with a graduate teacher in the matter at hand bringing binding legislative empowered force to dictate what the citizens will do to comply with their often warped view of the world.
    The worst part of that, those involved in the dictate may have absolutely zero personal knowledge or experience in the matter apart from a very suspect accumulation and digesting of recorded information from a minority of those at the coalface.

    If an example is needed just look at the progress of welfare where well intentioned graduates and self proclaimed experts enacted supposedly badly needed law to alleviate what they saw as needs that were in fact wants and created a society of people bereft of self worth, personal responsibility and simple pride in their unique place in the world.

    Leaving the civilised world perched on the clifftop Maggie Thatcher warned of nearly half a century ago when she stated “socialism will only last so long as there is other peoples money to fund it”.

  11. Andrei says:

    Will the vast majority of people want to live in peace and harmony with their neighbours and when left to their own devices do so

    Tell me Will, do you think that 10s of thousands of people would be attempting to cross the Mediterranean in rickety boats, as we speak if NATO had not unilaterally bombed the Sovereign Nation of Libya into ruins and in violation of International law and norms at that?

    And consider the very profound quote that Ele used in this post

    It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men

    How do you suppose the young men languishing in that broken country with no future are developing or those subsisting as refugees in Italy or other even richer European countries, from whence will they draw their inspiration?

    Cheering from the sidelines as gay pride parades pass by perhaps?

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