We like winners but . . .

Quote of the day:

 It’s not that we don’t want Kiwis to achieve success, it’s that we don’t want them to change once they’ve achieved it. Or, as my colleague put it, they can be winners, but they shouldn’t be dicks. Heather du Plessis-Allan

26 Responses to We like winners but . . .

  1. Mr G says:

    Your 3rd post about Eleanor, Ele?

    Yoza @ Kiwiblog found this:

    “One of the more unfortunate trends of the 21st century is the increasingly ugly right-wing strategy of singling out individuals—usually those who have somehow offended them by having liberal opinions—and subjecting them to grotesque smear campaigns and a deluge of abuse. Recent examples include Michelle Malkin’s smear campaign against a 12-year-old who testified in favor of SCHIP; the bizarre multi-year campaign to discredit climate scientist Michael Mann; and the relentless haranguing of feminist video game critic Anita Sarkeesian. The goal often seems to be to “take out” the target by making the price of continuing to speak out in public so high that they quit entirely.”

    Thought you might be interested.


  2. jabba says:

    “Millionaire philanthropist and political commentator Gareth Morgan says Russel Norman’s resignation as co-leader gives an opportunity for the Green Party to reposition itself as a genuinely environmental movement”
    “Dr Morgan said Dr Norman’s departure created an opportunity for this to change, but he thinks it might be difficult because of what he calls the party’s other co-leader Metria Turei’s “very left wing views”.
    mmmm ..saw this on Mr G’s favourite blog Whaleoil .. interesting that Morgan sees hope for the Gweens if both co-leaders go


  3. Dave Kennedy says:

    Jabba, I would love to know what these specific very left views are that Metiria holds. Could you have a look through our policies from the last campaign and highlight the ones you see as the most dangerous?

    Could it be the new born baby pack? Perhaps the school hubs to provide support for struggling kids and families? Or is it the 20 hours free ECE for 2 year olds? https://www.greens.org.nz/policy/fairer-society

    I just want to get some definition around what you see as very left wing views because it seems that it really means compassion and fairness.


  4. Name Withheld says:

    Jabba, I would love to know what these specific very left views are that Metiria holds.
    Then perhaps you should ask Mr Morgan, it was after all him who said it, not jabba.
    Comprehension skills were never your strong point were they?


  5. robertguyton says:

    Dave addressed his question to Jabba. Why did you poke your nose in, Name Withheld?
    Comprehension issues?
    In any case, Dave’s questions are too, too hard for Jabba.
    He blow a fuse!


  6. TraceyS says:

    Dave, that you link to Green policies as a place to find evidence of Metiria’s “dangerous” (your choice of word) views is in itself concerning. A political party’s policies should not reflect the views of one individual even when they are the co-leader. Perhaps especially when they are the co-leader. So nobody should expect to find Metiria’s views hidden in Green Party policy – or should they? Just tell me if I’ve got that wrong. As always, I am happy to be corrected.

    However, I do think you’ve provided a fine opportunity to reflect on the issue being discussed here. My reflection is that a politician who gives off the aura of being there for her own agenda is not the selfless individual whom is needed to put the environment first and forefront above all else. It doesn’t matter how worthy-sounding that agenda might be. Pursuing an agenda is not quite the same thing as leadership. I’ve personally learned this the hard way.

    “…Russell [sic] and Metiria are quite happy to sacrifice their influence in matters environmental at the high altar of Labour’s social justice policy. The Green Party is not actually an environmental protection party primarily – and New Zealanders who vote for it need to recognise that.”


    The sacrificing of influence pretty quickly starts to look like no influence if it’s repeated over and over – even if this is not really the case. To voters, it appears to be true, and will affect their enthusiasm come election time.

    I wonder, if Metiria was to join the Labour Party, would she be accepted better there (by the public I mean)? Would she be missed from the Green Party? If so, why? From a voter’s perspective it would seem a much safer bet. I wouldn’t might predicting that she’d be much more palatable as part of a team dedicated to the issues she is passionate about. After all, disadvantage and inequality are enormous multi-generational issues, and won’t be addressed by a party with its attention divided.


  7. RBG says:

    Re comprehension skills, in that post Gareth Morgan is calling for the establishment of a bluegreen centrist environmental party. Great idea, more voices speaking out on environmental issues. Hope he gets on and starts it and then perhaps he, and TraceyS, can stop complaining about the Greens being left wing. Which we are because we care about people and social justice and maintaining healthy ecosystems and biodiversity. You seem to have it in for Meteria TraceyS. The party’s policies reflect a consensus view of party members, thats how WE do things. Members, not just MPs help write them. We also vote for the leaders and funnily enough tend to vote for those whose views on policy align with the party policies.


  8. TraceyS says:

    You could at least spell her name correctly, RBG.


  9. Name Withheld says:

    Dave Name Witheld addressed his question to Jabba. Kennedy Why did you poke your nose in, Name Withheld?robertguyton?


  10. Mr G says:

    A debate between Metiria and TraceyS would be fleeting and decisive. Windscreen meets bug.


  11. TraceyS says:

    RBG confuses “left wing” with “caring”. A political party itself isn’t capable of feeling – only people within it are. Every political party has people who care about others.

    It is nonsense to regard caring as the preserve of the left, whether it is caring about people, or the environment we live in.


  12. TraceyS says:

    On second thoughts, I’ll rephrase that.

    “It is nonsense dangerous to regard caring as the preserve of the left, whether it is caring about people, or the environment we live in.”

    Perhaps this is what Dave was referring to when he wrote:

    “Could you have a look through our policies from the last campaign and highlight the ones you see as the most dangerous?”

    But really, Dave…asking a member of the public to do that?!


  13. TraceyS says:

    “A debate between Metiria and TraceyS would be fleeting and decisive. Windscreen meets bug.”

    A debate about what, Robert? Poverty and inequality? Growing up in poverty and what it takes to overcome those circumstances?

    Since Metiria isn’t here, how about I start the debate with you.


  14. RBG says:

    Sorry about the spelling, I notice you do like to pick up on others mistakes TraceyS. A party is a group of people, the people care, the party ‘cares’. That doesn’t mean other people or parties don’t.


  15. Mr G says:

    A debate about what?

    I’m happy to debate anything at all with you, TraceyS. Providing that is, that you accept that I’m being moderated by the hall-monitor and my responses might be delayed for up to 13 hours. Inconvenient, I know. It’s Ele’s way of giving you a chance – kind of tying one of my hands behind my back, but there you go, that’s how you do it here.


  16. TraceyS says:

    Well don’t worry too much about me having an advantage over you “Mr G”, my replies will also be delayed (due to work commitments). You can fill the gaps grizzling about moderation but you brought it on yourself.


  17. TraceyS says:

    Names are important RBG. You once corrected me for referring to you as “RGB” and it’s not even your real name!


  18. Dave Kennedy says:

    Tracey i find it really amusing that people feel they need to advise the Green Party, and our leaders, that we should be a party that focusses on the environment only and shouldn’t meddle in economic and social matters. It seems we should ignore our charter, our values and our history and somehow ignore the impacts that economic policy has on the environment. Suggesting that we concentrate on saving dolphins and snails above the plight of our families and children is also nonsense.

    I also note that when I continually try to link to our policy so that we can debate the real issues, this is ignored and the focus is generally returned to personality and myth. No Green MP can deviate from our member driven policy but the realisation of that policy into specific sub policies as seen in the links do reflect their leadership.

    The schools as hubs policy was led by Metiria and Catherine (for example and Metiria) travelled the country explaining how that kind of approach has a proven track record and helps build independence and resilient communities.


  19. Mr G says:

    TraceyS – Ele’s excuse for putting me back in moderation is complete tripe and simply an excuse dredged up to keep me in check. Ask her to explain why she did it (again) – her explanation is fallacious.


  20. jabba says:

    sOrry to hear you missed me earlier bOb, I mean Mr G. Dave K somehow thought it was ME who said Turei had very left views. I was glad Name Withheld corrected him. There was no need to twist the knife as I’m sure Dave was possibly suffering jet lag again.


  21. TraceyS says:

    “Tracey i find it really amusing…”

    Laughing so loud you can’t hear the voters?


  22. Dave Kennedy says:

    We got ten thousand more votes than 2011 and our membership increased by around 1000 in 2014. Not bad considering policy wasn’t the defining issue for people 😉


  23. TraceyS says:

    Dave, you got more votes in 2014 because more people voted than in 2011!

    To be precise, 7.34% more people voted in 2014 than in 2011. Yet the Green vote only increased by 4.04%.

    By comparison, National’s party vote increased by 6.88%.

    I think it’s time to stop gloating and start listening.


  24. Dave Kennedy says:

    Oh dear, Tracey, no gloating at all, just stating fact. I have graciously stated that National ran a strong campaign (clearly getting more votes), if you want to see gloating read most of the other comments including your own 😉


  25. TraceyS says:

    My comment could hardly have been any more factual. It was intended to point out that 10,000 more votes sounds like progress but, in relative terms, is not that at all.


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