Saturday soapbox

Saturday’s  soapbox is yours to use as you will – within the bounds of decency and absence of defamation. You’re welcome to look back or forward, discuss issues of the moment, to pontificate, ponder or point us to something of interest, to educate, elucidate or entertain, amuse, bemuse or simply muse, but please not abuse.

Just saw this by Sport England and really liked it! #shutupcouch

42 Responses to Saturday soapbox

  1. Let’s talk censorship and freedom of speech and perhaps a little on democracy. Of course, it may be 10 o’clock tonight before this comment appears, as I, and I alone, am consigned to “moderation” by the host and my comments, if they are published at all, can be held for up to 13 hours, meaning I’m unable to engage in any “live” discussion, never knowing if my comments will appear the same day that they’re written, or the following day. My being hampered in this way delights those I seek to discuss issues with, but seems to me unfair. Is this a practice the National Party promotes? I’m guessing, yes.

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  2. farmerbraun says:

    Not to point to fine a point on it :-), sometimes it’s good to “let sleeping dogs lie” .

    https://pickeringpost.com/cartoon/4379

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  3. homepaddock says:

    Robert, freedom of speech doesn’t mean you can say whatever you like, where and when you like.

    Whether or not your comments are moderated has nothing at all to do with democracy. This is in effect private property, while I welcome discussion with a wide range of views I tolerated your spamming for far too long and am not yet prepared to risk more of it.

    Your comments are moderated because you gave your word you’d stick to my rules and broke it.

    I approve your comments as soon as I read them but less blog writing also means less blog reading.

    Yesterday for example, from 11ish until after 1pm I was watching the live stream of a funeral.

    I checked comments after that then went out, checked the blog again after dinner then turned the computer off.

    I found your late evening comments when I checked early this morning, approved them, went for a bike ride, showered, had breakfast and just found the comment above.

    We’ve got visitors arriving soon so I might not be back at the computer for much of they day.

    Will your comments stay on moderation for ever? I’m pondering that.

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  4. No need to explain, Ele – I understand why you are fearful. You fear disorder, chaos, natural processes like those. Your fears though, are greatly exaggerated and anyone reading my comments will realise that they are not outrageous, nor intolerable, nor slanderous neither. There is no real need for me to be in moderation, I’m sure you realises that. You’ll know that in the past you applied far more rigorous conditions on me than you did on anyone else; for example, staying on topic. I note that now, others can say what ever they wish about anything and you don’t even blink at it, let alone consign them to moderation. They are also free to make claims without a single link – remember you deleted perfectly reasonable comments of mine because they had no link. That was petty, in my view. I think you’ve lost touch with what’s really fair and are victimising me. So you might reconsider, in light of my very reasonable argument, and release your grip on the control button. You can always delete if you feel panic rising. If you consider that I am vulnerable to attack from your other commenters, such as Richard with his untrue claims yesterday, and Ol’ FakEe and his passive/aggressive personal attacks, and your moderation leaves me unable to keep the record straight. Perhaps that’s something you are proud of, who knows.

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  5. Mr E says:

    It seems to me Robert appears not to understand the difference between private property and public property with his claims about democracy.
    I also think Robert does not understand regulation of unwanted behaviours with his claims of unfair treatment.

    Curious from a Councillor.

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  6. robertguyton says:

    And it must be a fag knowing that you’ll have comments from me waiting in the “moderation” box whenever you get home from your exciting social life, Ele. Best to just take me out of there. What could go wrong? Live dangerously, Ele! You’ll be fine!

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  7. robertguyton says:

    Sure I do, Ol FakEe! Mine’s a request, not a demand. Ele’ll soon realize that she’s been, perhaps inadvertantly, unfair and that there’s nothing to fear from having me on equal footing to every other commenter here. Plus this boring business of discussing moderation would be finished.

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  8. Richard says:

    RG –
    “And it must be a fag knowing that you’ll have comments from me waiting in the “moderation” box whenever you get home from your exciting social life, Ele. Best to just take me out of there.”—

    I suspect your writing on this and other blogs – many have banned you – is a reflection of your inability to to get any traction on your blog.

    Best you just leave this blog permanently

    Mr E agree: “It seems to me Robert appears not to understand the difference between private property and public property with his claims about democracy.
    I also think Robert does not understand regulation of unwanted behaviours with his claims of unfair treatment.

    Curious from a Councillor.”

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  9. Richard – your failure to back up your false claims reflects poorly on you. Come on man, stand behind what you say or we’ll think you were bullish*tting – which is what you were doing, wasn’t it.

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  10. Mr E says:

    I’d respond to the messages, but I’m not sure if am talking to Robert Guyton or robertguyton.
    I have to presume only one is the real Robert and the other is a fake? Surely Robert would not have multiple profiles?

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  11. No, I don’t have multiple fake profiles. If I browse on Chrome, it automatically uses my WordPress identity and if I use Firefox, it uses my Google identity. Both are my name, as you well know, though the joining together of robert with guyton seems to have flummoxed you completely, such is your tenuous grip on reality. I’m sorry for causing you all that confusion, I ought to have known that you like your words to be comfortable and un-surprising, like your favourite faux-fur slippers. . Your attempt to equate my identity with your own fake identity is…feeble, Ol’ FakEe. Your regular attempts to criticise my performance as a councillor, likewise. Looking further back, your willingness to gloat over and encourage the spreading of malicious gossip was worse than that, it was disgraceful, in my opinion. I can confidently bring that issue up, now that the originator of the claim has been forced to resign his position in the education world, along with those who assisted him in causing me discomfort, and the Ministry official I tasked with clearing my name and reputation has done just that. That you, Ol FakEe and others here revelled in slinging muck didn’t surprise me at all and colours my every conversation with you. I know what depths you will sink to and I have a long memory. Oh, and now Richard is having a go at slighting me by making untrue claims that he won’t respond to when challenged – something about my not earning my crust, always having my hand out – what is it about you people? Having been in employment since I was 17, bar my student days, I’m very interested to know what he means, but I don’t expect he’ll front up, being that kind of person (the not-fronting-up kind). And on top of it all, there’s Ele, playing favourites and undermining any claim she might have had to fairness and a belief in equality. Sometimes, I wonder why I bother with you people. Still, there’s Tracey. She might join the discussion we began and take that somewhere useful. Hard to talk with her though, given that 13-hour delay on my messages.

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  12. What I’d failed to consider, I suppose, is that I’m getting special, preferential treatment from Ele. Where she may or may not read comments from Ol FakEe, Tracey and so on, she certainly reads mine closely, so as to vet them for naughty suggestions about her National friends. I’m privileged then, and ought to be grateful. Thank you, Ele, for according me special status and attending so closely to ever word I write. I’m a little chuffed at that realisation. Wheat and chaff and all that, sheep and goats.

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  13. Mr E says:

    “your willingness to gloat over and encourage the spreading of malicious gossip was worse than that, it was disgraceful,”

    I don’t know what you are talking about Robert. Do you care to be more specific?

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  14. If you can’t remember, I’ll withdraw my charge and consider it forgotten. As farmerbraun said, it’s best to let sleeping dogs lie. It’s not as though I don’t have enough to do just taking part in the prescribed discussions…

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  15. “Your comment is awaiting moderation”

    How dull.

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  16. Mr E says:

    Come on Robert,
    You’ve made accusations, it is only fair to clarify those accusations.

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  17. It’d be futile to embark on an explanation, Ol FakEe, given how hampered I am by the up-to-13-hour delay on my comments. It’d just be pointless. It’s probably as frustrating for you as it is for me. In any case, Saturday Soapbox is Saturday’s soapbox, and it’s Monday.
    Here’s something though, your hideous claim about RBG and market gardeners – what’s wrong with you, FakEe?
    “Shortly after RBG creates a river of red blood, our rivers will run green with pollution.”

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  18. farmerbraun says:

    Robert when you consider the time-frames of the events that we discuss here, then a day or so delay in comments is nothing. All we have here is a record of what a few people were thinking at the time.

    The economic “event” coming over the horizon has not been seen since the 1930’s , or possible earlier; it is arguably on a centennial scale. It is going to be a very interesting year.

    The climate events we are witnessing may be on a bi-centennial scale ; a cycle that is not well described . For certain the sixty year Pacific Multi-Decadal Oscillation is doing what we know it consistently does.. We are about 15 years into the cool phase which will end about 2030.

    Some of the ecological/social disasters occurring on distant shores may be global millennial events, but “it’s too soon to say” 🙂

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  19. Oh, farmerbraun! And you showed such promise.

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  20. Environment Southland Media Release (for Mr FakEe and his constant shilling about how healthy Southland’s rivers are…

    Health Warning: Potentially toxic algae in Waikaia River

    Monitoring carried out by Environment Southland shows a high abundance of the
    naturally occurring and potentially toxic benthic cyanobacteria (blue/green or
    brown/black algae) in the Waikaia River in northern Southland.

    Cyanobacteria algal mats have been observed floating downstream, which means the
    algal could also be present in the Mataura River, but this is yet to be confirmed.

    People and animals (dogs are particularly susceptible) should avoid contact with the
    Waikaia River from Piano Flat downstream, including the main stem of the Mataura
    River until health warnings are removed.

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  21. Mr E says:

    ‘It’d be futile to embark on an explanation’

    You have nothing for me, after firing out accusations?

    And you have problems with a conversation I had with RBG? What is your problem?

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  22. Mr E says:

    Robert,
    Thanks for the media release.

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  23. Mr E says:

    3.5 Vegetable Cropping
    On a per unit area basis vegetable cropping systems (or market gardening) produce by the far the largest nitrate leaching to groundwater than any other land use type.
    Leaching losses of up to 321 kg N ha-1 yr-1 have been recorded in New Zealand, but typically leaching losses range from 80-292 kg N ha-1 yr-1, depending on the amount of rainfall and the type of crop grown (Table 1). The main factors responsible for nitrate leaching in these systems are: high N use (fertiliser and manure), frequent cultivation, relatively short periods of plant growth, low nutrient use efficiency by many vegetable crops, and crop residues remaining after harvest (Di and Cameron, 2002a).
    Compared to other agricultural systems, market gardens are the most intensively fertilised and cultivated production systems – hence their propensity to leach N. Fertiliser N application rates used in vegetable crops can be as high as 600 kg N ha-1 yr-1 (Wood,
    1997). Large application rates are used to ensure maximum growth because vegetable crops have sparse root systems that are inefficient at recovering applied fertiliser. Also, vegetables typically have short growing periods and are also grown over winter when
    plant growth and N uptake is slow (Haynes and Francis, 1996; Haynes, 1997).
    Therefore, the recovery of applied N by vegetable crops is often less than 50%, and can be as low as 20% (Di and Cameron, 2002a). Consequently, a large quantity of fertiliser N remains in the soil surface layers and is susceptible to leaching during rainfall or
    irrigation. Additionally, following crop harvest large amounts of plant residues are usually incorporated into the soil which, following decomposition, release mineral N into soil. The amount of mineral N derived from fertiliser and crop residue that is present in the soil
    after harvest can be as high as 200-300 kg N ha-1, and is the major source of leached N, indicating that fertiliser N management strategies are the key to nitrate leaching intervention in these systems (see section 4.3).

    Report prepared for Environment Bay of Plenty: June 2004
    Land use Impacts on Nitrogen and Phosphorus Loss and
    Management Options for Intervention
    J.C. Menneer, S.F. Ledgard and A.G. Gillingham

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  24. I entirely agree with you on the problems conventional market gardening presents. I once worked on such a market garden and was appalled, even as a young man, by their practices. I’ve worked for years finding alternatives that are environmentally friendly and I have succeeded, I believe. So, E, yes, conventional approaches to horticulture and agriculture leave a great deal to be desired. Your comments to RBG were stupid, in my opinion – rivers of blood etc. What a foolish way to talk. You deserve criticism for your inflammatory nonsense. You’ll have enjoyed the article on forest gardening in today’s Southland Times (also on the front page of StuffNZ) where real, effective means of growing food without producing rivers of anything toxic are described and demonstrated. Just look at the light shining in the eyes of those young people – they know a positive future when they see it 🙂

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  25. farmerbraun says:

    “And you showed such promise.”

    I’m not sure what you mean;you do hold public office , that I know.

    But the only way that I am useful to anyone’s agenda is if I state the known facts (assuming those facts are not widely circulated).

    So I will always tend to restrict my comments to what is established ; in regard to conjecture , I’ll adopt the wait -and -see approach while preparing for the very worst.

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  26. farmerbraun says:

    Mr E I have earlier referred to the destruction of the soils in my area by continuous market-gardening , beginning in the 1950s. Back then the gardener used a plough and a harrow ; all that was necessary given the friability and depth of tilth on those black silt -loam soils that resulted from the past 50 years of non-disturbed pasture.

    Once the structure is destroyed, then the biology collapses , and the chemistry no longer supports useful growth. At that point all the inputs become necessary.
    Incessant cultivation follows and the cycle just goes downhill until it is essentially just the practice of hydroponics in a very leaky tank. Total disaster really.
    But not even considered worthy of attention under the RMA.

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  27. Mr E says:

    “I have earlier referred to the destruction of the soils in my area by continuous market-gardening”
    “Incessant cultivation follows and the cycle just goes downhill until it is essentially just the practice of hydroponics in a very leaky tank. Total disaster really”

    Interesting assessment Farmer Braun.
    There is a school of thought that says replacing dairy cows with crops is a good thing for our environment because crops don’t emit all that methane. What do you think?

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  28. Mr E says:

    Robert,
    You accuse me of inflammatory comments. I’m guessing the readers will find some entertainment in that.

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  29. farmerbraun says:

    There is no argument Mr. E.
    If you want to build topsoil then permanent pasture is better than annual cropping.
    Permaculture is by definition more sustainable.
    The methane thing is pure speculation at this point where the drivers of climate are unknown.
    We await the Unified General Theory of Climate Change 🙂

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  30. farmerbraun says:

    In simple terms perennial is better than annual.

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  31. “permanent pasture is better than annual cropping”
    Even better is a diverse mix of both, plus biennials and every other combination of growing thing. In order to have a “stable”/sustainable population of soil organisms, insects and so on, you need to cater for them all. To then harvest food for humans from that mix requires a particular set of skills such as those permaculture offers. Curiously enough, for millions of years prior to the invention of agriculture, humans ate from the environment without smashing it to bits, as we agriculturalists are presently doing. How could that have been? Surely agriculture is essential to human life??? What were those people thinking for those millions of years???

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  32. Mr E says:

    Robert,
    You said:
    “I can confidently bring that issue up, now that the originator of the claim has been forced to resign his position in the education world, along with those who assisted him in causing me discomfort, and the Ministry official I tasked with clearing my name and reputation has done just that. ”

    I’m curious, why have we not seen this is in the News? Surely exposure of this is in the publics interest?

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  33. Amongst the perennial grasses of the prairies, farmerbraun, were numerous species of annuals. Do you think they had no purpose? Annuals build soil too. Rating one over the other is what got us into the trouble we are in now (I choose this plant/animal/race. The others must give way/surrender/die.)

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  34. Mr FakEe. I consider myself fortunate to be freed from moderation. I’ve no intention now of entertaining off-topic discussions. I expect you to do the same, for Ele’s sake.

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  35. Mr E says:

    “humans ate from the environment without smashing it to bits, as we agriculturalists are presently doing”

    Yep, I am the one using ‘inflammatory nonsense’. I see.

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  36. Good assessment, E.

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  37. Mr E says:

    This is soap box territory Robert,
    In the words of Ele,
    “Saturday’s soapbox is yours to use as you will – within the bounds of decency and absence of defamation. You’re welcome to look back or forward, discuss issues of the moment, to pontificate, ponder or point us to something of interest, to educate, elucidate or entertain, amuse, bemuse or simply muse, but please not abuse.”

    Like

  38. farmerbraun says:

    “Do you think they had no purpose? Annuals build soil too. ”

    You misunderstood ; we were talking about annual cropping (i.e. cultivation)

    Of course what you say is true . But those annuals that you talk about do not require cultivation to establish.
    Annual cropping per se is less desirable than perennial pastures.
    I don’t think that you are disagreeing with that , are you?

    My permanent pastures are full of annuals, but some of those pastures have not been re-grassed in 50 years.

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  39. farmerbraun says:

    “Even better is a diverse mix of both, plus biennials and every other combination of growing thing.”

    Yes but establishing wheat, barley oats , etc. in permanent pasture is quite difficult, if not practically impossible.
    The One Straw Revolution technique was specific to a certain environment.

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  40. “My permanent pastures are full of annuals, but some of those pastures have not been re-grassed in 50 years.”
    You are showing promise, farmerbraun.
    If you’ve read Fukuoka, you’ll have read “Biomimicry” too, I suppose?
    http://biomimicry.org/what-is-biomimicry/
    Their experiments were interesting, but I’m pursuing the “managed woodland” model in preference to the grassland-with-perennials. It shows much more promise, on a global scale, than pastoral pursuits.

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  41. farmerbraun says:

    You only have to look at my last 40 year’s work to see that I encountered those things a long time ago.
    I expect that the farm will continue to develop in that direction ; unfortunately , the further it goes that way , the less relevant it will be deemed.
    But it will be economically viable as a productive unit throughout the development.
    It’s all about building capital to ensure resilience, adaptability etc.

    https://www.facebook.com/BiofarmProductsNewZealand

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  42. TraceyS says:

    I see you’ve escaped moderation now, Robert, but would like to say that we all face different constraints. Most often entirely of our own making. I am traveling and tripping around with children. This makes commenting difficult. So don’t expect too much discussion with me at the moment.

    Like

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