Labour has spurned Green Party overtures to form a pre-election coalition.
ONE News has learnt the Green Party proposed a formal coalition with Labour to contest this year’s election but Labour MPs rejected it.
The proposal called on the two parties to campaign together and brand themselves as a future Labour/Greens Government. The proposal also wanted a divvy up of cabinet positions in proportion to the number of seats won.
It also called for a strategy on how the parties could work with New Zealand First.
“Some specific ideas that were put forward by the Greens did not find favour on our side…that’s a fair statement,” Labour Leader David Cunliffe told ONE News. . . .
Rejecting Green advances was Labour’s best option.
Most swinging voters in the centre aren’t enamoured of the Greens.
Any support Labour gained from the left with a pre-election coalition would be more than lost by the number of voters that prospect would have been scared away from the centre.
But Labour’s still got a problem.
It doesn’t want to govern with the Greens but could well find it difficult, if not impossible, to govern without them.
Whether they’re in a pre-election coalition or not, the prospect of the radical left policies a red-green government would implement isn’t at all attractive to undecided moderates.
Homepaddock 
Whether they’re in a pre-election coalition or not, the prospect of the radical left policies a red-green government would implement isn’t at all attractive to anyone with more than half a brain.
Tasmania, Tasmania, Tasmania, Tasmania.
LikeLike
This shows where the Green party have made their strategic error. By ruling out dealing with National, they have no leverage. Compare with Winston Peters, who everyone is calling the potential Kingmaker. If the Greens had been clever, they would have kept their options open, and thus been able to extract concessions from whoever was in power.
Thinking back to the memorandum of understanding of a few years back- my question to Dave is: Would you, as a Green party MP (should that happen) be willing to support (or at least not oppose) a National led government on Supply and Confidence, in exchange for implementation of certain Green policies by the Government?
LikeLike
“It doesn’t want to govern with the Greens”
Nonsense. It does want to govern with the Greens.
And it will.
LikeLike
Don’t worry about the “the prospect of the radical left policies under a red-green government”
Worry about the the fact of the radical left policies under the nominal national government over the last six years.
LikeLike
It must be election year, there’s lots of jostling and posturing as parties try and find a viable position for themselves. One thing that is sure is the Greens’ ability to work with any party, whether in coalition or not, to progress positive green change. We even had a memorandum of understanding with National that was able to set up the highly success home insulation programme that the Government now claims as its own and we worked jointly to clean up the polluted remains of the old Tui Mine. We have also recently worked closely with Labour on a joint initiative to deal with the unacceptable cost of electricity and the manufacturing inquiry.
In the end the voters will vote for the parties they feel most comfortable with, the dust will settle and coalitions will form. To me the biggest concerns will be National’s, they have the fewest credible coalition options.
In 2011 many National supporters saw the Greens as the most stable and reliable potential partner. Now unlikely that we will go into coalition with them they will have to artificially build Act, the Conservatives, or the Maori Party into credible parties in the eyes of the voters. If that fails there is always Winston Peters, but any time National has worked with him in the past it has ended in tears.
“Whether they’re in a pre-election coalition or not, the prospect of the radical left policies a red-green government would implement isn’t at all attractive to undecided moderates.”
I find it interesting that you refer to the Greens’ policies as radical when it is this National Government that refuses to follow mainstream advice. I think you will find Green policies often align with recommendations of the various Government appointed commissioners, the law commission and even the IMF and World Bank have been recommending greener economies. The Royal Society of New Zealand is hardly a radical institution and yet it has strongly come out in favour of a green economy: http://www.royalsociety.org.nz/expert-advice/information-papers/yr2014/greeneconomy/
It is now radical not to be green 😉
LikeLike
“In 2011 many National supporters saw the Greens as the most stable and reliable potential partner.”
Dave, you make my point – there were a lot of votes for a Green party that showed any sign of being able to work in a coalition, or at least in agreement, with National. And under Jeanette FItzsimons leadership, the Green party demonstrated that in 2008 with that memorandum of understanding.
” One thing that is sure is the Greens’ ability to work with any party, whether in coalition or not, to progress positive green change”
But there has been no indication AT ALL from the current Green party leadership that shows they’d be willing to work with a National lead government. The current GP leadership has instead firmly taken the party away from that option, which has lead to the current situation where many people see a vote for the Greens as a vote for a Labour led government. Like it or not, Labour and the Greens are seen as effectively being in coalition, regardless of what the press conferences yesterday said.
So, speaking in your role as a green party member, would you be happy for the Green party to support a National led government, in exchange for implemention of selected green party policies?
LikeLike
I would not get overexcited about the IMF or World Bank Dave. They are run by Europeans and Americans who used to prescribe Washington Consensus policies to feckless little countries with broken economies. But now that they are the basket-cases, they seem to have lost their enthusiasm for austerity, asset sales and government down-sizing. No-one listens to them anymore.
LikeLike
“I find it interesting that you refer to the Greens’ policies as radical when it is this National Government that refuses to follow mainstream advice.”
So lets see how the Nats have done compared to the previous 9 years under Labour and partners.. inbroad terms..
Inflation, Lab about 3.5%, Nat 2% with a GST blip that was fully compensated for.
Exchange rate, Lab 40-80 cents in USD, Nat 55-85 cents, bearing in mind that a high exchange rate is a mark of confidence from the rest of the trading world.
Real GDP, both about the same but with Nat having to cope with the biggest recession since the Great Depression.
Current account, Lab -2 to -8%, Nat -2 to -4%
Mortgage rates, Lab 6-11%, Nat 6%
House prices, Lab 10-20% increases, Nat 0 to 10%
Household debt, Lab 100-155% increase over disposable income, Nat 155 to 150%
Employment Lab 6 to 4%, Nat 7.3 to 6% including the recession.
http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/key_graphs/employment/
You check the Key factors on the right side of the page.
On just about every measure the Nats have outperformed Labour and partners and coped with the GFC at the same time.
Thats why your and other Lefties criticisms fall flat and do your credibility no good. As for the Green Economy.. well, you only have to look to Germany, the UK and Spain and see the effect on the economy and the environment to see its simply a subsidy for a failed ideological set of policies.
JC
LikeLike
not even the Labour Party would go into an election informing voters that the likes of Norman, Turei, Delahunty. Genter and a few others will be Ministers
LikeLike
Jabba, I know many who would gladly have Greens as Ministers instead of John Banks, Peter Dunne, Hekia Parata, Judith Collins, Gerry Brownlee, Simon Bridges… especially if they want honesty portfolio knowledge and genuine consultation being delivered.
LikeLike
“But there has been no indication AT ALL from the current Green party leadership that shows they’d be willing to work with a National lead government.”
J Bloggs, it was this leadership that set up the MOU, Russel became co-leader in 2006 and Metiria shortly after: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Party_of_Aotearoa_New_Zealand
We tried to continue with the understanding but it was National that pulled back, not the Greens. Despite the home insulation scheme being one of the most successful instigated by this Government, they have scaled back the funding and claim it as their own.
JC, there are a number of huge elephants in the economic space under this Government, like the ($60 billion of Govt debt-up $50 million from Labour) and the benefits of any recovery being kept within the top 20% of earners, few others are benefiting.
LikeLike
DK – it was also the current green leadership that completely mismanaged the conference vote NOT to work with National, and so did away with any leverage they may have at election time.
LikeLike
“JC, there are a number of huge elephants in the economic space under this Government, like the ($60 billion of Govt debt-up $50 million from Labour)”
And bang goes your credibility again because you ignore the Global Financial Crisis.
As Michael Cullen promised in 2008, ” “The Government is not going to allow the economy to slip into a depression because it has some fear of lifting its short-term borrowing position. That is not sensible fiscal economic management.”
More..
“But Dr Cullen said he would borrow more if necessary to fund road, infrastructure, forestry, housing and rail projects, including expanding the electrified network to Auckland’s North Shore and a rail tunnel under Waitemata Harbour.”
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/vote-08/issues/tax-and-finance-28614/672910/We-ll-borrow-more-if-its-needed-Labour
Of course, Labour had earlier reacted with scorn when Key, with his better knowledge of world markets had advised he would borrow but Cullen had to scramble to catch up as the recession deepened.
Once in Opposition those two genii of world finance Goff and Russel suddenly got the spending bug and insisted that National borrow much, much more to take advantage of cheap finance.. tens of billions more.
Now that the crisis has passed and the world is calling NZ “the rock star economy” the sorcerer’s apprentices have got cocky and are saying we shouldn’t have borrowed. That we should have taxed the bejesus out of business and the average family and followed that other financial genius Chavez of Venezuela in taking over the power system, the supermarkets, food and its distribution and punish hoarding when the inevitable shortages occur.
No wonder this is the most popular Govt since the 1950’s.
JC
LikeLike
There’s been a flurry of activity on Twitter this afternoon, suggesting that Cunliffe may have made some kind of “executive decision” to spurn the Greens’ approach, and that caucus got no say. If that is indeed the case, it’s certainly not going to endear Cunliffe to His caucus, 2/3rds of which did support him in the first place.
LikeLike
so what did the Greens contribute to the insulation of homes .. it must have been huge as it’s all they ever talk about
LikeLike
Greens won’t touch National with a barge-pole, nor trust them as far as they could kick them.
Very wise that.
LikeLike
thank god for that Mr Guyton .. at last we are on the same page, mind you, your brother-in-law might not agree
LikeLike
“thank god for that Mr Guyton .. at last we are on the same page, mind you, your brother-in-law might not agree”
Yes, it points out that the true Green has a visceral hatred of the near 50% of NZers who support National and DK’s protestations of working across the aisle are just so much flannel.
Still, hatred has often proved to be a powerful influence in bringing totalitarians to power.
JC
LikeLike
There is a huge difference between working with a different party in areas of common interest and giving them confidence of supply so that they can do whatever they want. 😉
LikeLike
I love your passion for your party Dave BUT there isn’t a MP from the Greens who would be a good let alone great minister .. if your lot along with Labour and Mana do win this year, who would you want to be ministers from the Green Party and what portfolio?
LikeLike
Kevin Hague as a past CEO of a DHB would make a solid Minister of Health, Julie Anne Genter with her transport and economic background would make a far better Minister of Transport and is well regarded by the likes of Stephen Franks, Mojo Mathers would make an excellent Forestry Minister (this is a growing industry) given her background in forest management, Eugenie Sage would make an excellent Minister of Conservation or the Environment because of her background in law and as a past RMA commissioner and environmental consultant, David Clendon would make a brilliant Minister of business, innovation or commerce as a successful businessman and as a sustainable business advisor. Holly Walker would be superb as the minister for Social Development, she was a Rhodes Scholar, has a degree in development studies and was brought up in humble circumstances. Kennedy Graham would be brilliant as our Foreign Minister because of his past experience as a diplomat, his work in the United Nations, his directorship of the University of the United Nations and as a visiting professor at the College of Europe. I deliberately chose some of the less well known MPs to show the strength and experience amongst our MPs. Of course Metiria Turei would make a much better Minister of Education and Russel Norman is better aligned to current thinking around economic management as is currently being espoused by the Royal Society of New Zealand, the World Bank and the IMF. Gareth Hughes is widely regarded by the IT industry as one of the few MPs that actually understands the sector.
Coming up through our ranks as potential MPs we have a sheep farmer, a banker, numerous business advisors, accountants…in fact we have most sectors covered by people with the knowledge and skills to manage a range of portfolios. We manage our party with great financial discipline and make excellent use of technology. All of our recent policy releases have been very well received by the sectors involved, all have cost/benefit ratios that are well beyond anything put forward by this Government.
When watching the performances of John Banks, Hekia Parata, Simon Bridges, Gerry Brownlee and others who are continually caught signing off things with little scrutiny or knowledge of their portfolios, I don’t think it will be hard for the Greens to do better. Even John Key claims that the Greens “Go hard” in the House. Our MPs are not aggressive or abusive they just do their homework and ask the hard questions.
LikeLike
DK I would appreciate some more background on your sheep farmer. What scale are they operating at and what innovations have they incorporated into their sheep enterprise?
Also which electorate?
Thanks
LikeLike
Roger here is something John Hart had recently published about meat inspectors: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/wairarapa-times-age/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503411&objectid=11209744
I’m not sure of the scale of his farm but he has managed his sheep and beef farm since 2008, is an artificial insemination technician and also has a background in recruitment and IT.
We are definitely not light in farmer membership as our own small branch has a beef farmer and two sheep farmers as active members. I have provided a link here in the past to our good farm stories site https://www.greens.org.nz/goodfarmstories/list and we are in the process of setting up a rural group so that our rural members can network and provide input and advice to the wider party.
LikeLike
Funny Roger,
I believe Dave is talking about John Hart from the Wairarapa.
And good point- How big is Johns lifeboat? Is it a more of a Noahs ark or a dingy?
The LinkedIn results are below.
http://nz.linkedin.com/in/farmgeek
Please note – he too has been a supporter of Farmers Markets. Identified by Professor Jacqueline Rowarth as been responsible for high carbon emissions.
As for Russell. Hypothetically if he was to be “deputy” and say visit China, our now biggest trading partner, how much protesting would he do there, I wonder. Would he elbow security staff out of the way and stuff a Tibetan flag in the face of Xi Jinping? I wonder.
Maybe he would try and send a softer soul to improve relations. I know send Kevin “I was arrested many times” Hague. Genius.
This green party has me loaded with confidence.
Currently I can see why Cunliffe has the barge pool extended.
LikeLike
DK thanks for the links and comment. I reside in the same region as your “sheep” farmer. I understand he may have some horses and cattle but a near neighbour tells me the sheep seem to be a little mythical. Here say or fact I don’t know…I need to do my own drive by past his 60 odd acres. I remain skeptical. As for his comments re meat inspection service… I suggest that they were strongly biased and substantially without foundation. Politics interfering with commerce would be the best summary……the opinion of others with greater industry knowledge than myself!
LikeLike
Roger, how about making direct contact with John, I’m sure he’d appreciate it. As for the meat inspector issue, haven’t there been enough disasters when industries have been left to manage their own health and safety and quality controls? It only takes one site to mismanage checks to damage the reputation of the whole industry. I am really worried about these sort of changes and the cuts to biosecurity. One role of Government is to ensure that our national brand and important industries have appropriate quality controls and protections. This isn’t just ‘politics’ but wise governance.
LikeLike
Idiot quote of the day – Mr E
“Please note – he too has been a supporter of Farmers Markets. Identified by Professor Jacqueline Rowarth as been responsible for high carbon emissions.”
LikeLike
Equivalent idiot quote – “Mr E has been a supporter of conventional dairy farming known to be responsible for high carbon emissions.”
LikeLike
“elbow security staff out of the way and stuff a Tibetan flag in the face of Xi Jinping”
Quote based on science, not emotion, as Ele forever champions.
Mr E – rational thinker.
LikeLike
Gidday Robert,
How are you? Nice day isn’t it?
You didn’t like my comment. I didn’t like the spelling error either. I’m sorry if it upset you. I’ll try to improve my spelling and grammar. But I guess, you know how it is.
LikeLike
Robert –
A little hypocritical don’t you think? Given that organic systems are at least as bad. And for a majority of systems – worse. Terrible carbon leaking organic farms.
LikeLike
It’s gloriously sunny and hot in Riverton. I’ve been planting native trees for much of the morning but had to come in because it’s too hot. Thought I’d straighten-out some of your erroneous thinking while I was inside. No need to thank me. I regard it as a community service.
LikeLike
Ho dear Mr E, you seem to be saying that principles have no part in governance. Kevin was a very young man during the Racist Tour protests and yet he took a leadership role in a protest that history has supported. Obviously when in Government there are different protocols and diplomatic parameters that must be considered compared to being a smaller opposition party with little influence. I believe that we need a progressive, principled government that has a reasonable degree of pragmatism. You must realize that one of New Zealand’s greatest Prime Ministers (who lifted NZ out of a depression) was Michael Savage, an Australian, a unionist and a past member of the socialist party. His Government lifted thousands of New Zealanders out of poverty, improved housing, kick started the economy, improved the education system and made New Zealand one of the most admired egalitarian nations in the world.
You appear to be making emotional judgements on the competence of those in our party when it is their competence in the job that really counts. I really worry when I see Judith Collins and Hekia Parata respond to reasonable questions in the House.
LikeLike
Dave – I went to your farmer page.
Immediately recognised Allan at the top of the page. Had a read. Quickly left, thinking – oh dear.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU0712/S00121.htm
LikeLike
Dave- Plenty of principled people protest without getting arrested Dave.
Some even chose blogging as a form of protest.
LikeLike
You definition of organic farms is…missing, Mr E. Your assessment of them as “terrible carbon leakers” is therefore entirely worthless. However, it’s even less useful than worthless, as it’s prejudicial and based on prejudice. That said, it’s a great opportunity to mprove to Ele that your views are more than the emotion she despises, and have some factual basis at least. So give it a go. Leave the emotional stuff (” stuff a Tibetan flag in the face of Xi Jinping”) aside, if you can, and show that you’re capable of rational argument. Here’s something to help you: In my experience (direct) orgainci systems, such as my own orchard/garden, do NOT leak carbon, but in fact, sequester it. That’s something I believe every landowner should do, as a social responsibility, withy regard climate change and other associated issues.
See if you can apply your often-over-emotional mind to that.
LikeLike
Many of our greatest world leaders have been arrested 😉
LikeLike
Robert,
Now days it seems nearly every blog has a hypocritical spell check.
To be frank I don’t a spelling reminder now and again.
LikeLike
organics aye, some strange people dabble in organics Mr Guyton
LikeLike
Mr Kennedy, why do you imply is a single government owned provider of safety and quality services the best provider?
LikeLike
Jabba asked Dave about which Green MPs would make good Government Ministers and Dave’s list-in-response was a powerful and convincing statement about the exceptionally high standard of the Green MPs. I note jabba was left speechless.
Mr E – I’ve not at any point “corrected your spelling”. You have barked up the wrong tree and sound oddly defensive.
I must say, Dave has you all looking a little … shallow.
LikeLike
Robert,
“Your assessment of them as “terrible carbon leakers” is therefore entirely worthless”
I’m not surprised you’ve buried you head in ignorance of the issue. The simple fact that organic systems have been identified as higher carbon emitters than conventional systems, could be frightening for many organic farmers.
I’d encourage you to open your mind. Those in the organic sector must have reviewed their carbon foot print, must have spent much time an money establishing a moral vantage point, one would have thought. These latest revelations make me wonder where their carbon footprint findings are. Hidden perhaps? Ignored? Or simply not done in ignorance. Or perhaps there is the odd organic farmer who has the mix right? Just like there is with conventional systems.
Plenty of conventional farmers have looked at their Carbon Footprint. Heck- even some of your Riverton neighbours. I wonder if you have Robert?- Do you have a clear conscious? Are you worried about your carbon per unit of output? Or are you head buried splurting la la la la?
Regarding my comments about Russell – He has been known to elbow Chinese security guards out of the way in order to thrust a Tibetan flag into the sight of Chinese officials. There is nothing emotive about that. It is a fact. He has shown absolutely no remorse for that. I therefore can’t ignore that he would do the same in a similar situation. Imagine a leader of NZ getting biffed in Jail. I can imagine Dave celebrating it now. Wow – He’s been arrested- must be a leader!
ps – I’d whisper to you – spelling mistake – But I forgave you already. And who am I to criticise? What a question? Yes?
LikeLike
Mr E you are twisting the truth somewhat in regards to Russel. Rod Donald used to do the very same protest when Chinese delegations arrived because he knew, like Russel, that their human rights record was appalling in relation to Tibet. Rod was given the protection of parliamentary security and Russel wasn’t. I cannot believe that you are prepared to allow a visiting nation’s security to interfere with the civil rights of a New Zealand citizen just because you don’t agree with their politics. Russel was standing to one side and yet was jostled, had an umbrella shoved in front of his face to hide his protest and had the Tibetan flag snatched from his grasp. I found the Chinese behaviour appalling and was also disappointed that we had city councillors bow to Chinese Govt pressure not to attend a cultural event that included a Falun Gong group. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong
What a submissive Governments we have if we are prepared to ignore basic civil rights because of the influence of a large trading nation. It wash’t that long ago when I was writing letters of protest against Invercargill MP Norman Jones because of his shocking comments about gays and communists. Isn’t it ironic that we now have National party people standing up for China and a Communist totalitarian regime before our own citizens 😉
LikeLike
But Mr E likes the Greens, Dave, would like to support them, (if only they were National) and feels shamed at using demeaning terms to describe them and their supporters. He likes you too, and would vote for you, if only you were the blond National candidate. Mr E really wants to respect the Greens, but they are such hippies, that he cannot bring himself to speak well of them, certainly not to vote for them. Now, if the Greens were to change and become say, the Simon Bridges Party, or the Judith Collins Party, you know, a party you could trust, Mr E would vote for them. You, Dave, are a good Green, or at least, better than that BAD Green, (me). Mr E would vote for you, were it not for the fact that he opposes everything you say, while praising you for saying it better than Guyton.
Does that help to clarify Mr E’s position, Dave?
LikeLike
Twisting, that’s a Joke Dave. – Watch the video again, please.
It is common place for high level politicians to have security.
Russel, elbowed a security man out of the way and advanced at the delegates, acting in what I would call an aggressive fashion.
Do you think they should have ignored him- said perhaps, “we can see your a friendly protestor – advance – go ahead.”
Don’t act so ignorant Dave . Thye had a job to do and Russel hamed it up for the camera’s. Simply making a fool of himself for NZ and China to see. Yep China- Our largest trading partner- Let’s carelessly protest. Farmers wont mind the damage to the trading relationship. Nah – Who cares about that? Russel? Nope.
LikeLike
Mr E – you say:
“thrust a Tibetan flag into the sight of Chinese officials”
You then claim “There is nothing emotive about that.”
But originally you said:
” stuff a Tibetan flag in the face of Xi Jinping”
You are being duplicitous. You’ve changes you statement in the hope of misleading me (and any other reader).
Yes, “Stuffing a flag into the face of Xi Jinping” is an emotion-driven claim. Yes you sought to soften that statement when told it was emotionally-driven. Yes you are being duplicitous. Yes, that’s shameful, in my opinion.
Hope that clears up any confusion, Mr E.
LikeLike
I watched the video, Mr E. Russel was courageous, in my view. His flag was stolen from him, wasn’t it? He was jostled by Chinese security men, wasn’t he? The situation was emotion-charged, wasn’t it – Russel kept his head very well, in my view. Calling for his flag back was his strategy to alert everyone else as to the fact that he’d had a possession taken from him by Chinese security guards. As a MP in New Zealand’s Parliament, he deserved to be protected from that behaviour by visiting security guards, I believe. I find your objections and justifications abhorrent, Mr E.! Surely you would support the democratic right of a New Zealander to protest in his own country above the rights of visiting security guards, in a situation where their official was in no danger whatsoever. Mr E. I call your behaviour around this disgraceful.
LikeLike
Robert is pretending to know my thoughts. Maybe he does have some kind of psychological powers. Him and Russell. There is a difference though. Russell’s powers have landed him in court. Roberts just make him look silly.
The way he’s acting I predict Robert could become the Wizard of Invercargill. I reckon it will happen shortly after Riverton floods, due to rising sea levels caused by those carbon emitting organic farms. Oh the irony.
I will call him out though on one thing. Please don’t call the Greens hippies. It is a derogatory term. I doubt they would like it.
Perhaps just call them ‘Pollution Promoters’ due to their obsession with carbon spewing organics. That is a bit more factual and shouldn’t land you in trouble with your other psychic buddy.
LikeLike
“Green Wizard of Southland”
“Carbon-spewing organics”
I suppose you think you’re being terribly clever with your hyperbole, Mr E, but having been challenged to provide some science to back your claims you’ve instead intensified your emotional hyperbolic nonsense and look pathetic.
This is the lowest I’ve ever seen you stoop, Mr Enonymous.
I’m embarrassed for you.
LikeLike
Good grief Mr E, you only see what you want to see, everything I described occurred. The Chinese had no right to interfere with a member of the New Zealand public, it was not their place to do so! When standing where he was originally he posed no physical risk. I’m sorry but I get the impression that protesting in this way against human rights abuses is distasteful to you and anyone who gets arrested obviously were doing something wrong. I remember marching in Invercargill against the racist tours with a number of church and community leaders, but many in the rural community where I was teaching expressed horror that I did so. To them protesting was considered like a criminal act. If you look back in history it is the people who stand up for a point of principle that often bring about positive change and if this wasn’t so we would still have blacks being persecuted, gays being beaten up and arrested and women wouldn’t have the vote.
We will have to agree to disagree on this one. Russel should have been allowed to protest in a protected way as there was no other way open to him to express many New Zealanders’ disapproval of the atrocities that have occurred in Tibet. A quite word of concern behind closed doors would have had no effect. China was unlikely to pull back on accessing our protein just because of one protester, but they may have realised that their behaviour is an issue for some New Zealanders who think human rights are important.
LikeLike
Don’t get me wrong Robert. I wasn’t overly happy with the umbrella.
But clearly Russel was advancing aggressively after elbowing a security guard out of the way. Which is when security moved in to block his advances. If you can’t see that – I cant help you.
The other simple fact you ignore is that Russel was putting a flag over the heads of security guards – blocking their view and as such their job. Removing the flag was more than appropriate.
Russels clumsy behaviour makes me think very very little of him as a leader. I can not trust him to visit other countries in case he has some beef to take up at some improper time. For those reasons I hope the Greens begin to think about promoting Metiria. A much better choice as leader for the party.
LikeLike
You are conflating issues Dave.
I’m not anti protesting Dave.
I am anti a New Zealand government member acting physically abhorrent during a protest.
I am anti a New Zealand government member, aggressively protesting against New Zealand government guests during their visit.
It is like a republican pushing toward the Royals shouting “free New Zealand”. It is disrespectful. There is a time, a place and a behaviour for protest and I think Russel got it all wrong.
LikeLike
As I said, we will have to disagree on this Mr E, Russel didn’t initiate the physical interference. I also don’t agree with your use of the royals as an analogy.
LikeLike
I have no respect for your version of those events, Mr Enonymous. You have taken the anti-Green/Russel pov at every turn and reveal yourself to be biased in the extreme.
Russel’s actions were “physically abhorrent”?
You have excelled yourself today, Mr Enonymous, in your use of hyperbole. Your views should be, and are by me, laughed-off as those of a hot-head.
“There is a time, a place and a behaviour for protest”, you opine and there you reveal your authoritarian streak and it’s a mile wide.
LikeLike
And just for fun:
“Russels clumsy behaviour makes me think very very little of him as a leader.”
http://johnkeylooksatthings.tumblr.com/post/17701120861/john-key-looks-at-3-way-handshake
LikeLike
Dave – agreeing to disagree with Mr E is the wrong position to take. His opinion is wrong and he should be held to account for that.
You are not bad enough, in my opinion 🙂
LikeLike
I can recognise that you are likely to feel sensitive at your beloved organics and Green Party being undermined in one short blog conversation. And that’s likely to blind your fair contemplation on this issue.
But not to worry Ill be sure to raise it on a day when the blog suits and you’re feeling a lot less sensitive.
I’m hoping on this day, I face an open mind, not a political defence. I think trying to get politicians to admit their wrong, is like using spade. You’ll make little progress unless you want to work with it. If you don’t, it’s a useless spade.
LikeLike