Freedom dumping okay for Greens

The Green Party campaigns vigorously against cow pooh pollution but in opposing legislation against freedom dumping  they’re sanctioning human pooh pollution.

The Green Party’s opposition to the Freedom Camping Bill shows it puts people camping where they like ahead of responsibility to our environment, Environment Minister Nick Smith and Conservation Minister Kate Wilkinson say.

The Bill passed its First Reading in Parliament yesterday with only the Green Party and former Conservation Minister Chris Carter opposing it.

“I am particularly disappointed the Green Party voted against the Bill. They are being hypocritical in demanding stronger action against polluting farmers but turning a blind eye to the increasing problems in our most sensitive areas caused by irresponsible freedom campers.  They cannot pretend to be the defenders of New Zealand’s clean green brand when they put more weight on camping freely than the responsibility to do so without polluting,” Dr Smith said.

“We need to take a consistent and fair approach to all groups whose pollution is damaging New Zealand’s reputation.  The Government has more than doubled the maximum fines to $200,000 for farmers and $300,000 for industry for breaches of water discharge consents. Regional Councils have toughened up enforcement with a significant increase in the number of prosecutions.  Everyone needs to take a step up in better respecting our environment.”

Ms Wilkinson says it’s baffling that the Green Party is happy for some of our most pristine and popular countryside to be treated as a toilet or dumping ground.

“Freedom camping will always remain part of the Kiwi holiday culture but it’s important that we can better prevent the appalling behaviour of the minority so everyone else can enjoy their holiday.

“This Bill is about giving local councils and DOC better tools to protect areas that have been badly impacted by the growth of freedom camping. The backcountry will remain unaffected, as it should be, and no responsible, law-abiding camper is going to be impacted.”

The legislation isn’t aimed at people who get caught short between loos. It’s designed to counter the growing problem of people camping where they will and dumping their rubbish and faeces there.

It is a problem not confined to rural areas. People in Te Anau and Wanaka have reported finding human waste on the grass verges of town streets.

People travelling in vehicles with self-contained loos will still be free to camp almost anywhere. Those without self-contained vehicles will have to stop where there are loos.

I can’t understand why anyone would oppose that, let alone the party that works so hard to counter other forms of pollution.

24 Responses to Freedom dumping okay for Greens

  1. Rimu says:

    If you have any interest in why the Greens opposed it, watch Kevin Hague’s speech http://inthehouse.co.nz/node/9135 🙂

  2. Rimu says:

    …or you could just quote a national party press release and leave it at that. But it would be pretty lazy and blatantly one-sided to do so.

  3. Inventory2 says:

    @ Rimu – all I can see is that the Green’s oppose legislation to control the illegal dumping of human piss and shit (pardon my language Ele). Why would that be?

  4. robertguyton says:

    Stupid headline Ele! Leading the ‘smear the Greens pre-election charge’ are you?
    I watched the debates over this bill in the House and the Greens are quite right. It’s a stupid bill that ignores the more subtle processes that are already in place, processes that are backed by the tourism industry and others, and instead imposes a Nanny-State, draconian ban (hear that National supporters? Your Mr Key and his team – Nanny Statists, banning whenever it suits them!) that will create a very unpleasant impression on all travelling tourists who come here and will require additional bureaucracy and policing to achieve anything at all. The Rugby World Cup you see, is to National, God.
    Inv2, all you can see…is your own prejudice. Try to think it through.

  5. robertguyton says:

    Are you able to look dispassionately at this statement Ele?
    “Ms Wilkinson says it’s baffling that the Green Party is happy for some of our most pristine and popular countryside to be treated as a toilet or dumping ground.”
    Do you believe what Wilkinson says is true?
    Really???
    And this from Smith,
    “turning a blind eye to the increasing problems in our most sensitive areas caused by irresponsible freedom campers.”
    Do you accept that statement Ele?
    ‘Turning a blind eye..’
    Really?
    Have you read or listened to the Green responses?
    Have you thought, even for a moment, about their real position?
    Seems not.

  6. Richard says:

    Robert, you are doing your usual trick in your posts by” scatergun” attacked of questions without articulating any position. You are “Green” with the a capital “G” with a bit of confusion as to what the “Green Party” actually stands for.
    Keep up the good work in EC getting the minority of dairy farmers to clean up their properties.
    Any measure that will stop tourists or NZ travelers leaving deposits where I walk need to be applauded.

  7. Inventory2 says:

    It’s only what you call a “stupid headline” because it exposes the hypocrisy of your beloved Green Party Robert. Most who read so-called “stupid headline” will be in complete agreement.

  8. robertguyton says:

    Inventory and Richard. I’m assuming that neither of you have read the Green’s statements on why they voted against this silly bill.
    If you don’t know their argument, why do you feel qualified to criticise it (Inv2) or expect that I’ll do it for you (Richard). Thanks for your encouragement re: EC Richard. There’s more to come on that front. It’s not ‘any’ measure that will help stop some tourists shitting the place up – the effective measures need to be supported. Those that set back the process should be opposed, as the Greens have done here.

  9. robertguyton says:

    “Most who read so-called “stupid headline” will be in complete agreement.”

    Classic.

  10. Inventory2 says:

    Quite so Robert; it’s classic that they will be in agreement with Ele and her headline rather than in agreement with you.

  11. robertguyton says:

    ‘They’ most likely will be Inv2, if their understanding of the issue is as shallow as yours.
    I can’t help that, but perhaps you’d like to bolster your own knowledge of the Green’s position by doing some background research?
    Too hard?

  12. Richard says:

    Classic Wrong Reporting:
    Such is the speed of the media that HP did not bother to read exactly what the Greens opposition said- shame on you HP, RG and In2 and your comments
    Blogs are good, but this is a case where a little more research, HP, you might have provided – just like journalists should do, balance. Whereas your original appears to be PR piece on behalf of the National Party? What the Green Party said was this- in various forms:

    “Green Party MP Kevin Hague said the bill said the smart approach was to create more places with toilets and rubbish facilities.”

    Seems to me to be quite sensible – so why the opposition?

    Incidentally Posted a comment: here:
    https://homepaddock.wordpress.com/2011/05/16/freedom-camping-a-bit-less-free/#comments

  13. robertguyton says:

    I’m listed on the wall of shame?
    Odd.

  14. gravedodger says:

    Guys you must show more respect for The Shining Wit,
    He is a Green,
    A Socialist,
    A councilor,
    A humorist,
    Opinionated ,
    and has an unshakable belief in his self importance.

    On the seventh day he rested and surveyed his great works.

    Yes run off from intensive farming is a problem in some cases but in the grand scheme of things while most operators are making a big effort to solve it there is plenty of law to sort it out. Unfortunately although there has been much legal resource to deal with farming and other industrial pollution albeit with often minimal penalties (also addressed in this bill), there has been very little for Local bodies to employ in dealing with the avalanche of Human excrement that has been dropping particularly at popular tourist sites. Often within crawling distance of Public conveniences.
    However in addressing the health, environmental, social and aesthetic issues around depositing excrement and urine in the open being addressed by this legislation that targets those dropping their offensive waste and the owners of the mainly “budget” campers much favored by the “eco tourists” who have that inalienable right to crap anywhere they like. Previously the perpetrators were often out of the country when they might have been held accountable and there was no responsibility on the vehicle owners.
    Maybe that should read “eco terrorists”, how did Giardia and those other nasties become so widespread.

    As the operator of a private “Self Contained” Movan, I welcome this move to address a problem that has been held by some to be our problem when the truth is we leave nothing more than wheel tracks but are seen as guilty by association by many of the uninformed.

  15. homepaddock says:

    “the smart approach was to create more places with toilets and rubbish facilities.”

    It’s also expensive and takes time.

    I don’t see this as either-or, we need both more places with toilets and rubbish facilities and measures to stop people without vehicles with self-contained loos camping where there aren’t loos.

    The problem isn’t the odd person caught short its a large and growing number of peoplee in cheaper rental cars and vans who don’t want to pay camping ground fees who stay overnight where there are no loos and often close to lakes, rivers and beaches.

    We can’t afford to have loos at every place someone might want to camp and we can’t have people leaving human waste and rubbish anywhere they choose to stay.

  16. robertguyton says:

    Ele and Gravy. The issue I’ve raised is with Ele’s headline in which she claims the Greens are happy to have human excrement litter our countryside.
    That’s not true.
    “Freedom dumping okay for Greens”
    “The Green Party campaigns vigorously against cow pooh pollution but in opposing legislation against freedom dumping they’re sanctioning human pooh pollution.”

    That, my one-eyed friends, is crap.

    Gravy. You’re a cranky fellow. Perhaps you suffer gout, maybe it’s ‘irritable bowel’ that curdles the milk of your kindness but whatever the reason, calling one of Ele’s ‘guests’ a whining shit, however obliquely, goes beyond curmudgeonly, in my opinion. It’s a habit you’ve exhibited before and I’ve let it slide. However, now that you’ve begun again, I’ll join the fray where apparently the manners bar has been lowered and personal insults are de rigueur I sense I’ll do alright in that environment.
    Let the merriment begin!

  17. gravedodger says:

    R G In the interests of health and safety cover that bleeding scab before you transmit a serious disease, if you dish it, man up and take it when it comes back with interest, as it surely will.
    You Mr Guyton have passed many aspersions on my intelligence, my presumed senility, my poor language and comprehension skills, my advanced years and my approach to anything I feel strongly enough about to cast an opinion on. It is cumulative enough for me to on occasions, retaliate.
    My apologies to you, HP for behaving inappropriately at your place, I am just too lazy to go all the way to Riverton.

    The “perception” of the Green Party ‘s ridiculous positioning on this is clear to most and any spin is daydreaming, however that is about the only way to answer it. Perception, as many say, is all that matters in politics.
    Remainder of comment deleted by author.

  18. Richard says:

    And in the Red corner we have —-Reg? — Rob?
    And in the Blue corner we have—Gav —- Gilbert
    Whatever — the pair seem closely matched——

  19. robertguyton says:

    Gravy – you obscure my point for reasons of your own no doubt. I’m more than prepared to ‘man up’ to your arrows of derision – couldn’t care less about them enjoy them even, but I’m challenging your repeated use of the indelicate term ‘whining shit’ to describe me here on Ele’s blog. It seems too rude for this format, despite being disguised as a ‘Spoonerism’. If you are determined to use it, so be it, but I’ll want to claim the same privilege and dub you ‘the bleeding pile from Akaroa’ or some other such term of endearment. Are you happy for the game to continue?
    Remainder of comment deleted by author’s wife.

  20. gravedodger says:

    Whatever.
    Take it home Robert, at least one member of your entourage has some sense.
    My creation of the ID that exercises you was originally an innocent reaction to yet another obscure attempt at humor by you that completely failed to engender even a tremor of a smile in me, when it was written it seemed so appropriate then it became a hand-grenade, and when you tossed all your toys out of your cot I felt as empowered as Uncle Joe with a nuke.

    Debate the issues and leave your inane attempts to link everything good to the Greens and their socialist allies and link every thing bad to the John Key government and those who support much of what they do, at your place where such views would be yours and available to YOUR visitors. Cripes I openly support much of Ms. Kedgley’s campaign on food labeling.
    Who knows a ceasefire may usher in another fragile peace.
    I am sure our host would appreciate that.

    Back to the topic
    Exactly what part of my strongly held opinion relating to the widely stated perception of the Green Political Party’s inexplicable hypocrisy in opposing the bill are you challenging.
    THEY ARE WIDELY SEEN AS BEING VERY CONVOLUTED IN THEIR OPPOSITION apart from inside their teepee or is that a whare.

    Uncovered human excrement anywhere and in particular in very accessible public places is totally unacceptable and that is a main focus of the bill and IMHO worthy of the support of every single citizen with pride in our country.

  21. robertguyton says:

    Have you read the Green’s response to Nick Smith’s attack Gravy?
    If not, why not?
    You seem keen to argue the facts of the matter – have you gathered any?

  22. gravedodger says:

    The name is Gravedodger and I accept Gd or gd if you must as a diminutive in the interests of brevity.
    For someone whining about names and identities you seem deliberately obtuse in your own behavior in deliberately missnaming me unless you are referring to another in which case my apologies are offered.
    Respectfully, my question was about the Freeking perception out there in NEW Zealand that the the greens were being hypocritical!!!.
    I have not read the Greens reply to Nick Smith and I wonder what there would be in anything Neek Smeeth might have to say on anything that would get me to read it. He is in the wrong bloody party, not even what I would call a “blue green”, I would fit that descriptive more than my PERCEPTION of him.
    One mistake you may be making is my connection to the National Party of any of the parties that engender such angst in your writings in the blogsphere.
    FYI I am not and never have been a member, an activist or any other cog in the political Party world. I always had better things to do in my life. Of course my activism in the feds in the 70s would qualify in your eyes but I regarded it more as a professional body than a union, such is my black and white world.

  23. robertguyton says:

    The ‘Freeking perception’ is exactly what I’m questioning here by challenging Ele over her use of header that reads,

    “Freedom dumping okay for Greens'”

    I’m asking if anyone here knows what they are talking about.
    Haven’t heard a lot to convince me that they do.

  24. gravedodger says:

    A favorite adage of my dear mother, “There are none so blind as those that do not see”.

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