The furore around the foreshore and seabed has been full of misinformation and emotion from the start.
The Foreshore and Seabed Act was bad legislation enacted in acrimony when Labour panicked.
National promised to repeal it, has done so and has introduced the Marine and Coastal Area Bill which:
• Guarantees free public access;
• Makes a common space of the public marine and coastal area, ensuring it can never be sold;
• Protects all existing uses, including recreational fishing and navigation rights;
• Addresses two fundamental rights violated by the Foreshore and Seabed Act – the right to access justice through the courts, and property rights;
• Protects, and in some cases extends, rights of vital infrastructure such as ports and aquaculture.
I can’t see anything to worry about there. It applies to a relatively small areas of coastline. We’ll all still have free access to the beach; Iwi have the right to seek justice in court and property rights are protected.
Some Maori are opposing the Bill because they think it doesn’t go far enough. In spite of that there’s been heated opposition from people who think it goes too far – including, most surprisingly, those on the right who would normally be the first to stand up for property rights.
Most of the opposition is based on misinformation and emotion. The government is countering this with a website explaining the facts which includes a message from Prime Minister John Key:
What’s to fear from fairness?
Homepaddock 
A little too close to Christmas to argue many points of this Bill. But here is one. Most Maori are opposed because of this: “To establish customary marine title, the applicant group must prove exclusive use and occupation of the areas, that such exclusive use and occupation has been held from 1840 to the present without substantial interruption” The bar is too high. For example the Crown Titi Islands are a case in point in the 1800’s -ownership was vested in the Crown and in 1998 given back to Ngai Tahu. So there was a very long gap where the iwi did not have ownership although through licenses titi could be harvested.
Unless something is done about this provision we are in line endless court cases. Sad.
Have a good Christmas
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I agree with Richard on this issue and wonder at your willingness Ele, to shill so blatantly for the National Party in such a systematic manner. You must be receiving direction from them, is the only conclusion I can come to. Every other post, a sanitised feel-good promo for John and the boys.
Nothing here, I note, on the Jackson/Brownlee/Key hobbit expose, or the Dalai Lama reveal .. nothing that might disturb the calm blue waters of your True Belief.
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It’s not an ordinary property right. It was something your great great great grandparents had, and lost (at the same time gaining a share in the foreshores and seabeds of the rest of the country) Nobody alive today has lost anything they had any idea they owned before 2003. It’s an unthinkable idea for those of us who grew up when Crown ownership was totally settled. This is the thin end of a very big wedge which threatens all coasts, national parks and has already taken Auckland’s volcanic cones and the Waikato river. Perhaps you guys who talk of fairness don’t think you’ll actually lose anything in this round. Do you have anything to do with the 10% of coast immediately threatened?
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I endorse the thrust of the comments from Richard, Robert & John.
To bring this issue up a few days before Xmas does you no justice Ele. Particularly when you were so critical of Tired Farmer’s efforts in bringing this issue to the fore at the National Party Xmas do in Gore four weeks ago.
The hierarchy would not allow the paid up member to exercise his right to make a silent protest – because it was an Xmas do.
The history of the Bill is a disgrace as is the Attorney-General Finlayson, who is conflicted in also being the Minister of Treaty Negotiations.
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I do not foresee a ready resolution to the coastal debate. I expect it to place our society in shadows for generations to come. I admit my bias falls on Ele’s side of the debate.
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To be quite honest, I’d never trust the national party now, not even Bill English. Consider the highly discredited ETS policy law whatever. Notorious might be better. Corrupt science yet Nick Smith & co want to impose that scurrilous scheme.Come Hell or highwater.
So I don’t trust national’s tampering with our kiwi iconic rights in apparent exchange for political alliances. Putting party before country has an offensive stench. Some stains will never wash out.
It must be difficult to be a loyal national supporter, keeping up the side, knowing within one’s heart that cynical political stunts are being played out.
When I walked away from national, and thought for myself, it was a liberating and refreshing feeling. Cleansing in fact.
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Richard – I thought the uninterupted use was part of the case which started the debate.
Robert – I keep telling you no-one gives me direction on what topics to write about.
Sally – there’s a big difference between giving my views on my blog and trying to disrupt someone else’s social function.
Cadwallader – I agree there won’t be a ready solution.
Ralph – it’s not difficult at all to support a party when its principles and most of its policies align with your own.
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Ele, Yes it was. But a general point about the Government doc. Jo & Joe would be none the wiser from reading it -indeed they would be more confused. Just read section on customary rights:
http://admin.beehive.govt.nz/sites/all/files/101216%20MACA%20-%20The%20test%20for%20customary%20title.pdf. In lay persons terms what does this mean? Its legal speak e.g.”usufructory” – candidate for word of the day. When will Governments learn that it is in their interest to present a balanced case in simple terms using examples to illustrate their arguments? All the document will do is to polarize the extremes at both ends.
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“I keep telling you no-one gives me direction on what topics to write about”
“Every other post, a sanitised feel-good promo for John and the boys.”
I’ve mentioned the same about HP appearing to being a Nat shill before and fully agree with Rob G. on the matter. Perception is everything from where I sit.
Back to the topic in hand. Lousy timing, but not unexpected knowing how politicians operate. The bottom line is that all rights to sovereignty were foregone on the 6th Feb 1840 as they became British subjects. To now argue there is some tenuous right of customary use dating back 170 years is obscene in the extreme.
Do not repeal the 2004 act. It is fine, just need to tell the natives perceived customary rights are not going to happen.
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“I’ve mentioned the same about HP appearing to being a Nat shill”
I am open about my National bias but I do not write to order. The party has more important things to worry about than a blog read by a few hundred people.
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I hate the way I am ending up agreeing with the blueish bloggers on so many issues. Labour need to have a rethink of their rethink on this. I was impressed by Finlayson’s interview with Chris Laidlaw last Sunday on National Radio.
The misinformation has to some degree been encouraged by the Maori Party. I seem to recall Sharples saying this is the best deal going at the moment that sort of statement scares people and scared people are not rational.
This isn’t a big deal remember 20% of all future new aquaculture space is reserved for Maori in a lot of ways that has more economic significance than customary title for Maori. Nobody has an issue with this in the aquaculture sector.
What a lot of us forget is that non Maori can also benefit from “customary rights ” . If you have an event for argument a wedding you can approach a Komatua for a permit to increase your recreational bag limit. Lets just take a collective deep breath.
@ Sally. Ele has a right to bring this up whenever she wants this is her blog and we have the privilege of making comments. I might have a red tinge to my politics but as the Labour Party descends into idiotic left wing positions I have no problem in supporting National on things I agree with them on. National has attempted to find a workable solution to this issue for that they should be commended. I am pissed of Labour for withdrawing support.
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It’s upsetting Hamish, watching you struggle with your loyalty to Labour, in the face of National’s reasoned and balanced proposals. A visit to your blog reveals why you might be so torn –
” Today a friend of mine from varsity David Farrar was a panelist..”
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“Today a friend of mine . . .”
There are more important things than politics. Unless you’re a bigot it’s possible to have friends with a range of views which don’t necessarily coincide with your own.
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“What a lot of us forget is that non Maori can also benefit from “customary rights ” . If you have an event for argument a wedding you can approach a Komatua for a permit to increase your recreational bag limit.”
Hamish – there is the crux of the argument. Under supposed public ownership of beaches, the seabed and the resource contained therein, why should I have to approach some non-entity to enjoy such supposed free access? What gives the local natives any advantage above other New Zealanders to a public resource.
Customary rights are a total crock designed to further the grievance industry and its parallel hard done by ethos of victim-hood.
One law for all. Period.
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“One law for all. Period.”
That’s diplomatic immunity out the window then!
Under 16 year-olds better watch out as well!
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rg, The law is not about age or job – it is about those of a specific ancestry wanting more entitlements than other British subjects.
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Funnily enough at the last National party meeting in Gore which our local member attended several National Party members gave the party a bollicking on various issues, but he left early saying he had to meet with Dairy Farmers in the Dipton area over the draconian tactics from Environment Southland.
It is usually not hard to get a crowd for a party but
apparently only about 40 arrived at the Gore one this year.
It will be an interesting run up to the General Election election.
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Great to hear from you again TF. Apparently you didn’t have too much success getting your anti-ETS placards into the Christmas party.
As you well know TF,there are plenty of parties going on,people are tired and also many people are frightened that “aliens from outer space” might disrupt these pleasant gatherings.
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“it is about those of a specific ancestry wanting more entitlements than other British subjects”
You mean like the Queen?
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Neil – National party goers believe in aliens?
Paranoia in Gore?
This is interesting news indeed!
(Or are you meaning ‘little green men’?)
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No need for you to lose sleep for fear of being kidnapped by aliens Neil, most thinking people are terrified at the prospect of suffocation by poultry.
What is national doing about the exploding government borrowing? What is it now, $300 million a week? What do they spend it on? Is it productive? Propping up welfarism & bureaucracy ? What rational policy are they following? In the mean time the national government clobbers the productive sector, allows local government & it’s lackeys to run amok unchecked.Efficiency & good governance — NO WAY.
Any thoughts on how the huge debt can be repaid & NZ retain its competitive edge and comparitive advantage?
I hear the sound of converging chickens. Lots of them.
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Ele, if you see nothing to worry about with this heinous Bill, then you obviously haven’t read much about it in any great detail. If you can bear to drag yourself away from waving pompoms for National for a few seconds, please think about their history of betraying the hard-won rights of ordinary Kiwis, then read the following rebuttal to National’s supposedly bulletproof Q&A about the foreshore and seabed.
Click to access CoastalCoalitionResponsetoNationalsSpin.pdf
I can’t believe a Conservative like yourself would be stupid enough to support something that essentially privatises publicly owned beaches, and hands all of the potential mineral wealth and development rights to iwi – and they can do this after a cosy little meeting in Chris Finlayson or Pita Sharple’s office.
Main points:
1. The public would not be able to challenge any customary title deals after they had been made in private, they would only be able to question whether due process had been followed. A bureaucratic sham.
2. Iwi protested that the F&S Act by Labour removed their right to go to Court, but methinks they doth protest too much. They don’t WANT to go to Court if they can avoid it, because the process is much more costly, lengthy and the test threshold would be higher in open court. This Bill allows them to avoid all of that unpleasant business of public transparency and steal public land under our noses.
3. Customary title would NOT be subject to the Resource Management Act, which is intended to protect the environment, and iwi customary owners would have more power than local councils, or local planning documents. The public wouldn’t have the right to question anything, such as location of wahi tapu, bans on fishing or collecting shellfish (except for iwi), etc.
4. The Maori Party has made it quite clear that they would like to be able to charge the public for access, and Chris Finlayson has not yet guaranteed that he will insert a clause to prevent that from happening. He did not even mention charges until Rodney Hide raised this as an issue, and then the Maori Party got all pissed off about it and said they were offended. Boo hoo.
5. If you think this Bill is about public access, think again. It’s about handing over millions and millions of dollars worth of minerals and marine development rights to a small sector of the population, on the basis of their ethnicity. Urban working class Maori who are not affiliated with corporate iwi will never see any benefits from this sudden influx of wealth, but certain fat cats will do very nicely out of it. If mining was to happen, the profits would be much more wisely spent on education, health, a rail system for Auckland, roads, social services – essential services and things that improve New Zealand for everyone. It’s not like we’re all drowning in cash at the moment is it?
6. By removing beaches from public ownership, the Bill will make it easier for the government to privately negotiate mining/aquaculture deals with iwi owners, and the public will be completely shut out without being consulted or listened to. WE will have lost all say in the future of our beaches.
Think again Ele, your naievete is simply astounding.
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