NZ a square peg in round ETS hole

New Zealand’s problem is that we’re different.

Primary production and industries based on it are our bigeest export earners; almost all our forestry is from exotic species; we have relatively little heavy industry and the bulk of our power is already from renewable sources.

The Kyoto Protocol wasn’t designed for countries like us.

The heavy reliance on primary production is much more common in developing countries. But around half our emissions come from animals and there is little, short of reducing stock numbers, we can do to reduce them immediately. Research is being undertaken to reduce emissions from livestock but practical, affordable solutions may be years away.

The rules requiring new trees to be replanted where old ones were felled was aimed at protecting rain forests and indigenous species. It seems no-one considered that a clause aimed at protecting indigenous trees shouldn’t apply to exotic timber species in a country where they grow as well as they do here.

Our private vehicle ownership is high by world standards but that reflects our relatively small, widespread population which means that public transport is neither practical nor affordable in many places.

New Zealand is a square peg and we were ill served by the negotiators who tried to fit us into the round ETS hole.

I have a lot of confidence in Tim Groser who will be working on our behalf at the Copenhagen summit.

But I thought the whole thing was a dog’s breakfast from the start and my concerns are even greater now that there are questions over manipulation of climate change data.

Over at Sciblogs Aimee Witcroft raises the possibility the leaked emails have been doctored and points to a Guardian story  on the issue. It quotes Prof Bob Watson, the chief scientific advisor at Britain’s Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs who said,

“Evidence for climate change is irrefutable. The world’s leading scientists overwhelmingly agree what we’re experiencing is not down to natural variation.”

 Also at Sciblogs Gareth Renowden isn’t convinced by the leaked material.

For a contrary view see:  Ian Wishart,  Adolf at No Minister,  Roarprawn, Whaleoil,  Not PC, Poneke,  Mr Tips at NZ Conservative, Thoughts from 40 South, and Something Should Go Here  who says: 

I’ll say it a thousand times, climate change activism is about politics, not science.

14 Responses to NZ a square peg in round ETS hole

  1. dimmocrazy says:

    I just love how you remain somewhat positive Ele, but the sad truth is that the people of whom you have such high opinions, have just sold out the country, their souls and their own families. Next time you rub shoulders with this bunch you may want to tell them that.


  2. Andrei says:

    The whole thing is about political power – its a absolute disgrace that National is shown to be in the forefront of the advance of Global Socialism.

    Do you know why 1990 is the critical year for benchmarking emmissions Ele?

    Let me tell you – they got Kyoto signed by using that year because the filthy industries of communist Europe were still in action then. They have long since failed but count when it comes to calculating the reduction in emmissions for The Ukraine, Russia, Romania etc meaning of course these Nations are ahead of their targets and will be laughing all the way to the bank at the expense of New Zealand farmers.


  3. toad says:

    Ian Wishart, Adolf at No Minister, Roarprawn, Whaleoil, Not PC, Poneke, Mr Tips at NZ Conservative, Thoughts from 40 South, and Something Should Go Here

    All renowned climate scientists. NOT! What a mottley bunch of wingnuts. At least I’ll give Farrar some credit for not going there.


  4. Andrei says:

    “climate scientist” has become synonymous with charlaton Toad.

    If you were half awake you would be fully aware that data from the Climate Research center has escaped into the wilds of the internet revealing scientists at the very top of the IPCC process have created a closed shop, deleted inconvenient data, and fudged other data to created this cretinous idea that cow farts will being about the end of the world.


  5. murrayg1 says:

    Sad and ignorant comments.

    You folk have just seen a record Taieri temp, a series of record Aussie temps (and this only November) and a 1-in-1000 year flood event in the UK.

    Shit happens. We caused the shit – we should deal with it.

    Denial, obfuscation, blame-shift, are all immature responses.

    I’m contemplating writing a book about this era – you folk don’t mind that I cut-and-paste some of the above comments?

    You’ll look like Chaimberlain justifying his actions in a 1945 memoir, of course.


  6. Sally says:

    Like “dimmocrazy” I am completly disorientated by Trader John and and his minions for several reasons including ETS issues.Never thought one would have to consider supporting Labour.
    Plus in Gore Districtour a “Card carrying” CEO is under the spotlight again.

    Did the CEO follow councils policy on imposing a charge out rate for disclosing information and did the Herald on Sunday have to pay the GDC to obtain this info?


  7. pdm says:

    HP I hope you made your views clear to John Key when you dined with him the other day. I find it hard to understand how such an intelligent man can not see the stupidity of the ETS and Kyoto.

    I said at the beginning of 2009 that he had the potential to be NZ’s best Prime Minisister since Sir Keith Holyoake. But there is no chance of that if he continues down the track he is on.


  8. murrayg1 says:

    He doesn’t have to be intelligent – he’s got a Chief Science Advisor who is – which is lucky.
    Currency trading is not a great training ground for science, just as it serves no socially-useful purpose.

    Don’t worry Sally, both National and Labour ducked the Hampden debate. Makes no difference which you support – both are for ‘growth’, so both are backing a dead horse.

    see my blog for a summary of the debate.


  9. homepaddock says:

    “both National and Labour ducked the Hampden debate.”

    The organisers got the negative team then with relatively little notice asked some Ministers to take part in the affirmative team by which time they had other appointments.

    I suspect they wouldn’t have accepted anyway because it was set up to support the conclusion which the organisers had made before they started. It was like asking Roger Douglas to a Social Credit debate on monetary policy.

    The post to which Murray refers is:

    P.S. Murray – there’s no s at the end of Dean and only one l in Ele.


  10. Sally says:

    Murrayg1 I would love ut see your blog, but don’t have a link.

    Some coverage from the MSM and debate from the politicians of what may well turn out to be the greatest scientific scandal uncovered would be welcome.

    The MSM surely can’t believe that the hacking of these emails is only causing a stir among ‘skeptics.’

    The lack of reporting confirms the view held for the last 10 years re Al Gore and the IPCC that we definitely do not have a free press.

    I thought the role of journalists was to inform the public of what the ‘elites’ were doing. Not cover up for them. Watchdogs?


  11. scrubone says:

    I’m glad to hear I’m not a climate scientist, but if that’s the trigger to ignore someone, what’s toad’s qualifications?

    Thing is, I quite like the idea of using markets to discourage pollution and encourage tree planting and other responsible behavior, but that’s not the biggest effect of the ETS.

    I don’t really get that excercised over the issue (at least not at the moment). From what I’ve been reading the science is pretty settled but the activists are not being true to it – hence my comment above. Of course, the recent emails are going to blow open the entire scientific debate…


  12. murrayg1 says:

    The science is never settled – that’s the problem getting it to others.
    Darwin’s theory fitted the facts as he saw them – and he defended that in the manner of defending a PHd.
    As new data comes to light, theories are modified. Darwin’s (for instance) has been enhanced – via genome knowledge etc – and continues to be verified.
    Nobody is sure where the current capacitance is, but the biggest suspect is the deep ocean. Whatever, when a capacitor is full, the movement continues.
    Think of it (I just wrote this somewhere else the other day) as pouring a known flow of water down a dry gully. You know the rate, and watch from the top, timing it’s progress. Then you race to the bottom, stopwatch in hand,expectant. It doesn’t appear as predicted.
    The deniers say “it’s stopped” (or “it never got going”).
    Those who know it got going, and understand why, will wander up the gully. At some point, there will surely be a dip or indentation, filling up to become a pool. Once it is full, the flow will continue on it’s way.
    That indentation is a ‘capacitance’. (In electronics, capacitors are short-term batteries – same thing).
    The problem with this issue is that there is no ‘Plan B’, and the lead-time to do anything will be gone before the denial has gone away. Indeed, before the blame-shifting and the duck-shoving has gone away.
    So it has to be addressed, as part of the cost of doing the business we do.
    Sorry about the spelling, Ele, but not I’m afraid for the sentiments. I’ve already formally apologised to my offspring for what we did to them, so I get a bit short with folk who aren’t ‘there’ yet.
    Gerry Eckhoff was brave enough, and Bruce McNab. And you’re not alone – Labour are in opposition, it’s their ETS thats getting upturned, and yet they didn’t have the whatever to front.


  13. J.R.M. says:

    Murrayg1,you areA prat and know it all and to hell to most of us who have struggled to make NZ what it is.It sure is great to see all the suedo academic dropkicks trying to undermine NZeconomic profitability ,Profit is a dirty word to YOU LOT,GOING BACK TO THE HORSE AND CART IS NOT AN OPTION THEY ARE UNAFORDABLE-BESIDES THEY FART!ISEE YOU ARE ONE OF THE DENIERS-ALL THESE SHONKY DEVIOUS SO CALLED SCIENTISTS NEVER ALTERED DATA to SUIT THEIR FAULTY THEORIES AND ONE WORLD SOCIALIST GOVT.


  14. rogerthesurf says:

    There might be global warming or cooling but the important issue is whether we, as a human race, can do anything about it.

    There are a host of porkies and not very much truth barraging us everyday so its difficult to know what to believe.

    I think I have simplified the issue in an entertaining way on my blog which includes some issues connected with climategate and “embarrassing” evidence.

    In the pipeline is an analysis of the economic effects of the proposed emission reductions. Watch this space or should I say Blog

    Please feel welcome to visit and leave a comment.



    PS The term “porky” is listed in the Australian Dictionary of Slang.( So I’m told.)


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