Theodore Dalrymple notes a cultural change in the USA:
. . . Now American society has many faults, no doubt, as all things human do; but the one sin of which it was traditionally freest, by comparison with all other societies, was envy. More people wished good luck to the successful in America than in any other society, though of course not all; fewer people were bitten by envy, and more people impelled by emulation, than anywhere else in the world. Indeed, there was a time, and not so long ago, when to display or appeal to envy would have been regarded as un-American, a virtual repudiation of the American dream. Mr Nixon despised Mr Kennedy as a pseudo-aristocratic spoilt brat, but didn’t dare say so in public in case it sounded envious.
So Mr Obama’s appeal to envy is a symptom, and perhaps a reinforcement, of a cultural change. It goes without saying that his own financial position is one which 99.9 per cent of the enviously-inclined might envy; but an appeal to that envy, to suggest even subliminally that a man with a large fortune is in some way existentially less suited ipso facto to the highest office than a man with less money, is no more traditionally American than would be a sneer at a man’s humble beginnings.
The excitation or exploitation of envy is wrong, even where the fortunate do not deserve their good fortune.
Politics of envy is not unknown here too.
It is part of what drives the left’s obsession with inequality.
The real economic and social problem is not that some people have a lot more than others but that some don’t have enough.
If inequality was the real problem it could be solved by dragging down those with more and making people equally poor.
That would not however, do anything to help those who don’t have enough, whatever enough is.
The left’s obsession with inequality is to do with the politics of fairness, not envy.
Bollocks – ‘politics of fairness’ is purely windowdressing for envy.
Bollocks – fairness is core to my belief in the value of equality in many aspects of society.
Thats wonderful RG – but as you well know when the politicians (note I haven’t just blamed just the lefty polies) get a hold of it they promise to rob the rich and give to the poor. Essentially playing on the politics of envy. That’s what kept Liabour in power for 9 years and why the Nats haven’t rolled back Liabour policy that is bankrupting the country and destroying our value structure.
BTW what is ‘fairness’. The right believe in fairness of opportunity, whereas the left rabbit on fairness of outcome, again pandering to the politics of envy.
“Politics of envy” is a rightwing, elitist meme, promulgated in order to justify continuing down the track of advantage and exploitation.
Get it right, para.
Oh really? So it wasn’t the left that talk about “rich pricks” ? (here’s a clue – the same rich pricks that provided the particular poor lefty with equal opportuntiy).
How about discussing equality of opportunity rather than outcome? But that doesn’t fit your worldview does it. Much easier to balme others than actually do something about it.
“Advantage and exploitation” who is on the meme now then?
Carry on with your compost.
“How about discussing equality of opportunity rather than outcome?
Certainly!
But that doesn’t fit your worldview does it.
You make no sense at all with that statement. I’ve regarded equality of opportunity as very important for much of my life. Much easier to balme others than actually do something about it.
Is it? (I presume you mean ‘blame’, rather than a referrence to soothing) I don’t plan on blaming anyone and I am involved in many actions that provide opportunity. Are you sure you’re not just blowing, para?
Carry on with your ranting.
Why then do you carry on the marxist meme the left are so fond of? Blaming the rich is pretty standard lefty dribble. Most people in New Zealand who you would consider “rich” and take “advantage” and do the “exploitation” have actually worked hard to get there. Why are you so keen on tearing them down with your sneers and supercilious attitude?
“Politics of envy” can be the only answer for such a negative outlook held by the left.
BTW don’t you think “balme” is an appropriate typo? All the equalising of outcomes undertaken by NZ’s socialist governments have not cured the underlying problems. Just like the pregnant teenager trying to use vanishing cream to solve her conceived problem.
Envy might be what drives Right-wingers, but they are wrong to presume that others are motivated by greed and jealousy. Of course poor people would like to have enough money to have a comfortable life and be able to afford warm houses, adequate healthcare, school sports and camp fees and other things the well off take for granted. That is not the politics of envy, it’s about fair share.
You’re making lots of assumptions and generalisations there Viv. Both my wife and I voted for National in 2008 and 2011; in that time we’ve doubled the number of staff we employ, paid annual increases in wages even when business wasn’t going so well, and tried to be as supportive as we can when our staff run into problems.
If we were motivated by greed and envy as you claim, we would have made fewer people work harder for longer, put up our salaries instead of theirs, and told them to get their own sh*t together.
It might be your pre-conceived idea that those who vote for the parties of the right and centre-right are motivated by self-interest. But you do your argument a big injustice when you try to tar everyone with the same brush.
it’s all about fairness aye .. big problem here and that is the meaning of fairness and indeed equality
Fair call Inventory. It just bugs me that NZ has become a much more unequal society in the last 30 years and when people draw attention to that fact, the response is to say, as Ele did, that it’s politics of envy. Most of us are decent people who do believe in fairness. I don’t think it’s fair that some CEOs get million dollar salaries when the working poor are struggling to meet basic living expenses. I disagree with Ele that the left want to change that by making everyone poor because the left are driven by envy. To be honest, I don’t know what drives the right wing. It sounds like you are good employers and that’s great for the people that work for you, but working people need fair working conditions set in law and not have to hope that they will be lucky enough to have a benevolent employer.
And the growth in inequality has coincided with the growth of Government’s of all hues putting in place wealth distribution actions. Welfarism is not working. The correlation of inequality with increased welfarism is palpable. Talk about unintended consequences.
Fair call Inventory. It just bugs me that NZ has become a much more unequal society in the last 30 years and when people draw attention to that fact, the response is to say, as Ele did, that it’s politics of envy. Most of us are decent people who do believe in fairness. I don’t think it’s fair that some CEOs get million dollar salaries when the working poor are struggling to meet basic living expenses. To be honest, I don’t know what drives the right wing, though I was under the impression that it was self interest rather than the collective good. I expect you’ll call that another broad assumption, didn’t think I’d made that many of those in my previous comment. It sounds like you are good employers and that’s great for the people that work for you, but working people need fair working conditions set in law and not have to hope that they will be lucky enough to have a benevolent employer.
Ah yes, the famous egalitarianism of the 40s to the 60s, I remember it well.
The unemployed were called bludgers, the injured and sick were called Compo Kings, solo mums had their babies taken off them or confined to their parents’ homes, the were mentally ill were institutionalised and shocked regularly, “odd” kids were bullied, beaten until they were no longer “odd” and homos were always insulted, regularly beaten and ostricised, Jews were told “Hitler never finished the job”.
Yep, we were pretty equal back then and so much happier as a result.
JC
“If we were motivated by greed and envy as you claim…”
Viv didn’t claim that. Therein lies the problem with the generalizations of Keeping Stock. They don’t link well with reality.
Jabba@ 2:35 is, astonishingly, on the button.
Oops, sorry about double comment, doing this from my phone, wondered where draft 1 had gone, 2nd comment similar, didn’t want 2 pick on Ele too much, as she kindly posts comments from all of us
It is all about fairness !!..
I agree whole heartedly …
It is only fair that you work as hard as my wife and i did to
put food on the table with a few extras..
It is only fair if you go without the cigarettes and grog..
It is only fair if you pay for a mortgage and not bludge on the state housing..
Ad nauseum… You want it !!!.. Bloody well work for it..
Para – yes, balme is good. The rest of your claim is nonsense. You are transposing your ideological memes onto me, without foundation. Perhaps you should apply some soothing balme before making such claims.
My ideological memes? Wasn’t it you who said: ” justify continuing down the track of advantage and exploitation”? How is that not an ideological meme with its basis where again?